Brent Everett on Environmental Cleanup, Civic Duty, and Teaching
Brent Everett reflects on a life of stewardship, from his career in environmental remediation to his decade of service on the Lehi Planning Commission.
Brent Everett
Environmental Stewardship, Civic Duty, and Education
At a Glance
Archive Scoring
Introduction
At the heart of Brent Everett’s story is a profound sense of stewardship—a commitment to leaving the world, and specifically the soil and air of Utah, better than he found it. His journey begins not in the halls of government, but under a microscope at Brigham Young University, where the vibrant, paper-thin colors of ground-down minerals first sparked a lifelong fascination with geology. This scientific curiosity evolved into a career defined by the cleanup of 'egregious' environmental sites, where Everett transitioned from a project manager to the Director of the Utah Division of Environmental Response and Remediation. His narrative serves as a historical record of the evolution of environmental consciousness in the American West, moving from the unregulated industrial past of the mid-20th century to a modern era of 'Utah solutions for Utah problems.'
Everett’s philosophy of service extends beyond professional boundaries into the very fabric of his community. His nine and a half years on the Lehi Planning Commission represent a pivotal era in the city’s history, as it transitioned from an agricultural outpost to a rapidly growing suburban center. He speaks of the Planning Commission not just as a regulatory body, but as a site of civic deliberation where the public process unfolds in late-night meetings and complex zoning debates. For Everett, this was never a burden, but a fulfillment of a generational mandate to be 'substantial and meaningful' in one's involvement with the land and its people.
The human dimension of his story is anchored by a poignant lesson on the power of the individual. He recounts a family legend involving his mother’s loss in a college election by a single vote—a vote withheld by his own father. This anecdote serves as more than just a piece of family lore; it is the cornerstone of his civic identity. It explains his unwavering dedication to the ballot box and his belief that governance is, at its core, a collection of individuals trying to do the right thing for the right reason. His record is one of quiet, persistent leadership, bridging the gap between technical expertise and neighborly duty.
Everett also reflects on the changing nature of the earth itself, specifically through the lens of brownfield redevelopment. He describes the satisfaction of taking 'bad ground'—former gas stations or industrial sites—and rehabilitating them into community assets. This work is a testament to the belief that no place is beyond redemption. By focusing on the 'beneficial reuse' of land, Everett’s career mirrors his vision for a community: one that honors its history while actively preparing for a sustainable and prosperous future.
Ultimately, Everett’s account is an invitation to view citizenship as a form of long-term care for the environment and the community. Whether discussing the nuances of lead standards or the importance of 'trip-chaining' to improve air quality, he emphasizes that every resident of Utah is a stakeholder in its health. His story is a vital addition to the Lehi archives, capturing a period of intense growth through the eyes of a man who worked tirelessly to ensure that growth did not come at the cost of the state’s natural legacy.
Episode Overview
A detailed look at the topics, people, and context of this conversation.
In this episode, Brent Everett shares his extensive background in environmental science and his deep commitment to community service in Lehi. As the longtime Director of the Utah Division of Environmental Response and Remediation (DEQ), Everett provides a professional overview of how Superfund sites, petroleum storage tanks, and brownfields are managed at the state level. He details his personal philosophy of 'Utah solutions for Utah problems,' emphasizing the state's role in maintaining environmental standards while supporting economic growth. The conversation covers the early days of environmental regulation following the creation of the EPA and the shift toward voluntary cleanup programs that revitalize abandoned properties.
Beyond his professional life, Everett discusses his nearly decade-long tenure on the Lehi Planning Commission. He offers a behind-the-scenes look at how local government functions, describing the transition from his initial appointment by Mayor Bert Wilson to his three full terms of service. He highlights the Planning Commission's role as an advisory body and the importance of public participation in shaping the city's growth. His insights provide a valuable perspective on the administrative and social challenges of managing a city in the midst of a historic population boom.
Personal history is woven throughout the episode, particularly regarding Everett’s upbringing in California and his eventual roots in Utah. A standout segment includes a family story about the power of a single vote, which instilled in him a lifelong dedication to civic duty. The tone of the episode is reflective and principled, emphasizing the intersection of scientific expertise, local governance, and the individual's responsibility to contribute to the common good. Everett’s narrative captures a specific moment in Lehi's development and the ethos of stewardship that guides its long-term residents.
Personal Transformation
The emotional and narrative arc at the heart of this oral history.
Brent Everett's journey is one of evolving from a technical scientist fascinated by the microscopic aesthetics of minerals to a guardian of public health and community integrity. He began his path in California, the son of a teacher, with a simple curiosity about geology sparked by the vivid colors of minerals under a microscope. This early interest was initially steered toward the lucrative potential of the oil industry. However, a major economic shift in the mid-1980s forced a professional pivot, leading him into the nascent field of environmental science. This challenge transformed his career from one of extraction to one of restoration, a shift that required him to master the complex intersection of law, science, and human behavior. Over decades at the Utah Department of Environmental Quality, he moved from managing projects to directing an entire division, finding that his true work was not just about cleaning up soil, but about protecting the 'Mother Utah' he came to love. His transformation culminated in a realization that leadership requires looking 'beyond one's own dance card.' By accepting roles on the national stage and the Lehi Planning Commission, he shifted from a man simply finding his way in a career to a dedicated public servant who internalizes the long-term stewardship of the land. He became a bridge-builder, balancing the competing demands of an economic engine with the fundamental right of a community to have clean air, land, and water.
Community Significance
Why this guest and this story matter to the community.
Brent Everett’s impact on Lehi is foundational, particularly during the city’s transition from an agricultural community to a technological hub. Serving nine and a half years on the Lehi Planning Commission, Everett acted as a technical and ethical anchor during the city's most aggressive growth period. His professional expertise in environmental remediation provided the commission with a unique lens, ensuring that as Lehi expanded, it did so with an eye toward land safety and responsible development. Without his presence, the city might have overlooked the long-term environmental consequences of rapid urbanization. He filled a critical need for objective, science-based leadership on citizen boards, often navigating late-night deliberations on challenging zoning issues that shaped the current skyline and infrastructure of the city. His commitment to 'Utah solutions for Utah problems' ensured that Lehi retained its local identity even while undergoing massive external pressures. Furthermore, his role as an educator at UVU and his involvement in state government helped integrate Lehi into the broader narrative of Utah’s environmental stewardship. He represents the kind of 'quiet leader' whose fingerprints are on the safety of the ground residents build their homes upon, even if the public is unaware of the behind-the-scenes work of remediation and planning.
"The patterns of what makes up rocks on the microscopic scale was fascinating. I'd never done anything like that. Never seen anything like that. So that planted the seed."
— Brent Everett · 3:55
Key Themes & Life Lessons
The ideas that run beneath the stories — and what they teach about community, leadership, and belonging.
Environmental Stewardship
Civic Duty and Voting
Local Governance and Planning
Utah Environmental Regulation
Geology and Public Service
Community Stewardship
Brownfield Redevelopment
Public Policy and Administration
Wisdom & Life Lessons
Brent Everett offers the wisdom of 'stewardship over ownership,' suggesting that we all have a responsibility to leave the air, land, and water better than we found it. He champions the principle of 'looking beyond your own dance card,' which advocates for a selfless approach to public service that transcends personal convenience. His life illustrates the value of 'balance'—not being so polarized that you cannot see the need for both economic growth and environmental protection. He emphasizes 'Utah solutions for Utah problems,' a wisdom rooted in the belief that those closest to a problem are best equipped to solve it. Lastly, he imparts the wisdom that 'protection and growth are not mutually exclusive,' a philosophy that can guide sustainable development for any community.
Key Takeaways
- 1The 'Utah solutions to Utah problems' philosophy emphasizes local control over environmental issues.
- 2Environmental protection and economic growth are not mutually exclusive but require careful stewardship.
- 3A single vote can be historically significant, as illustrated by Everett's family story about a BYU election.
- 4The transition of former industrial sites (Brownfields) into beneficial reuses is vital for community health.
- 5Volunteering for local boards like the Planning Commission is a critical form of civic service.
- 6Effective regulation involves a balance of education, industry partnership, and public safety standards.
Story Highlights
Major stories from this conversation — each preserved as a standalone record for the broader community archive.
During his freshman year at BYU, Brent Everett took an honors physical science class that changed the trajectory of his life. He describes the tactile and visual process of collecting rock samples, gluing them to microscope slides, and grinding them down until they were paper-thin. Under the light of a microscope, the vibrant colors and intricate patterns of the minerals were revealed. This microscopic view of the world intrigued him so much that it planted the seed for a career in geology, moving him away from his initial interest in zoology.
Emotional Significance
The story captures a moment of pure intellectual and aesthetic wonder, where a hidden world was revealed through scientific inquiry.
Why This Matters
It illustrates how a single teacher or a single hands-on exercise can define a person's entire professional legacy.
Life Lesson
Great passions often start with small, unexpected moments of discovery; looking closer at the world around you can reveal a hidden path.
Transformation
Brent transformed from a student with no clear direction into a focused geologist, realizing that there was profound beauty and complexity 'under the surface' of the earth.
What It Reveals About Brent Everett
It reveals his meticulous nature and his appreciation for detail and structure.
What It Reveals About the Community
It highlights the caliber of residents who choose to call Lehi home—people with high levels of scientific expertise and a history of academic rigor.
Community Value Preserved
The importance of the 'spark' in education and finding one's calling.
For future generations: It serves as a reminder that the natural world holds deep beauty even at the microscopic level, and that pursuing wonder can lead to a fulfilling career.
Brent recounts a family story passed down by his mother regarding her run for senior class president at BYU. She lost the election by exactly one vote. The tragedy was twofold: her boyfriend (Brent's father) voted for the opponent because he feared she would have less time for him if she won, and her own sister, acting as her campaign manager, forgot to vote entirely because she assumed the victory was certain. Brent’s mother used this story to instill a lifelong commitment to civic duty in her children.
Brent discusses the philosophy that has guided his 16-year tenure as the Director of Environmental Response and Remediation in Utah. He emphasizes 'Utah solutions for Utah problems,' arguing that while environmental protection is non-negotiable, it must be balanced with the state's economic engine. He views his work not just as regulation, but as 'stewardship' over 'Mother Utah,' a term he uses to describe his deep ancestral and personal connection to the land.
Brent was approached to run for the presidency of a national organization representing environmental leaders from all 50 states. Initially, he didn't want the extra responsibility, noting it wasn't on his 'dance card.' However, a colleague from New Jersey challenged him by saying, 'Brent, sometimes you need to think beyond yourself.' This simple nudge convinced him to step up, eventually becoming the first Utahn to serve in that capacity and influencing national policy during both the Trump and Biden administrations.
Brent’s nearly decade-long service on the Lehi Planning Commission began with a surprise phone call from then-Mayor Bert Wilson. Brent didn't even know the mayor personally and was confused as to why his name had come up. Despite his initial lack of experience in municipal planning, he accepted the appointment to the Board of Adjustment and later the Planning Commission. This led to nine and a half years of deliberating on the growth and development of Lehi during one of its most transformative eras.
"Brent, sometimes you need to think beyond yourself."
— Brent Everett quoting a colleague · 24:36
Historical Preservation & Legacy
What this interview preserves about community history, cultural legacy, and intergenerational knowledge.
Preservation Value: Exceptional
This interview is of exceptional value because it provides a high-level scientific and administrative perspective on Lehi's physical and political development. It bridges the gap between state-level environmental policy and local municipal planning, preserving unique details about the city's growth that are not captured in general histories. The 'power of one vote' story is a classic piece of regional folklore with universal moral application.
Why This Episode Matters Historically
This episode serves as a vital record of the evolution of environmental policy and municipal planning in Utah during the late 20th and early 21st centuries. It documents the professionalization of environmental stewardship through the eyes of a long-term director at the DEQ, capturing the transition from the early days of the EPA and the Clean Water Act to modern voluntary cleanup programs. Historically, it captures a specific moment in Lehi's timeline where the Board of Adjustment was replaced by a more modernized legal process, signaling the professionalization of local government. It also preserves the logic behind the 'Utah solution' philosophy, which seeks to balance conservative economic principles with necessary environmental regulation, a key tension in the state's historical identity.
What Future Generations May Learn
Future generations will learn that the safety and viability of their environment were not accidental, but the result of intentional, technical oversight by dedicated individuals. They will gain insight into the ethical framework of 'stewardship,' which treats the earth as a resource to be used wisely rather than just exploited or preserved in stasis. They will see that the growth of a city like Lehi required difficult trade-offs and that having experts in the room during those decisions was crucial for long-term health. Finally, they will learn the value of civic engagement and the idea that local government—boards, commissions, and councils—is the most immediate and impactful level of service one can offer their neighbors.
Community Memory Preserved
This record protects the memory of Lehi's administrative transition, specifically the sunsetting of the Board of Adjustment and the maturation of the Planning Commission during the Mayor Bert Wilson era. It preserves the specific story of how the Monicello Mills site and other brownfields were reclaimed, turning 'bad ground' into beneficial community assets. It also safeguards the familial history of the Everett family's migration from Salt Lake to California and back to Utah, reflecting a common regional pattern of the era. Most importantly, it preserves the specific civic memory of the 'one-vote' lesson, a story of student politics at BYU that became a lifelong motivator for civic participation within a Lehi family.
Local Knowledge Preserved
The record preserves technical knowledge regarding the 'fate and transport' of chemicals in Utah's specific geology, explaining why certain manufacturing practices of the past created long-term risks for groundwater and drinking systems. It explains the distinction between federal Superfund sites and state-led voluntary cleanups, providing a roadmap of how land in Lehi and Provo was remediated for redevelopment. It also documents the specific organizational structure of the Utah DEQ and the role of the Planning Commission as an advisory body to the City Council, providing a snapshot of municipal operations in the 2010s.
Intergenerational Lessons
The primary lesson for future generations is the 'Power of the One,' as illustrated by the story of Everett's mother losing an election by a single vote because her own husband and sister failed to show up. This narrative serves as a stark reminder that no civic duty is too small and no outcome is guaranteed. Another lesson is the importance of being 'teachable'—Everett’s willingness to serve on boards he initially didn't understand shows that a desire to help is the first step toward expertise. He also teaches the value of the 'Utah ethic' of efficiency: doing the right thing for the right reason with the right outcome. For future leaders, his experience demonstrates that you don't always have to seek out leadership roles; sometimes, doing excellent work where you are leads to being called to serve in ways you never planned. Finally, he emphasizes the role of education as a tool to combat fear, suggesting that when communities are informed, they can make better decisions for their future.
Community & Cultural Insights
The transcript reveals a community that deeply values self-reliance and local control, often manifesting as a healthy skepticism of federal government coupled with a high trust in local experts. It shows Lehi's transition from a place where everyone knew everyone (agricultural) to a more complex municipality where government structures had to be formalized. The culture is depicted as one where 'good people' are expected to step up when called, such as a mayor calling a resident out of the blue to serve on a board. There is a strong emphasis on the 'economic engine' of the state, but also a growing cultural awareness of the health risks posed by air quality and industrial remnants. The narrative suggests that in Lehi, service is often built on friendships and personal recommendations, highlighting the 'roots and branches' metaphor of the community's interconnectedness.
Historical Context
The episode captures the evolution of environmental regulation from the creation of the EPA in 1970 through the implementation of major acts like CERCLA (1980) and RCRA. It contextualizes Utah's specific approach to environmental management, moving from a period of unregulated industrial activity toward a model of voluntary cleanup and state-led remediation. Furthermore, the narrative highlights the demographic shifts of the late 20th century, particularly the migration from California to Utah for education and employment, and the subsequent transformation of Lehi from an agricultural community into a rapidly growing suburban and industrial hub.
Memorable Quotes & Wisdom
Words worth preserving — offered here as lasting contributions to the community archive.
"The patterns of what makes up rocks on the microscopic scale was fascinating. I'd never done anything like that. Never seen anything like that. So that planted the seed."
— Brent Everett
3:55
Connects personal education and discovery to the professional expertise that now protects Lehi and Utah's environment.
Highlights how a single moment of intellectual curiosity can determine the course of a lifelong career in environmental protection.
"Utah takes that seriously. We want Utah solutions to Utah problems."
— Brent Everett
8:06
Reflects the Utah value of independence and the desire for local leaders to manage their own land and resources.
Establishes a philosophy of local self-reliance and the importance of contextual governance over federal mandates.
"First and foremost is protectiveness, right? Protectiveness of human health and and the environment. And then if there's an opportunity for redevelopment, certainly that's a key component."
— Brent Everett
11:01
Critical for a rapidly growing city like Lehi where former agricultural or industrial lands are being converted to residential and commercial use.
Outlines the dual mandate of environmental remediation: keeping people safe while restoring land for the future.
"If we can take and preserve green fields by rehabilitating and redeveloping brown fields, then we're not giving up good ground and making it worse. We're actually taking bad ground, making it better and utilizing it for purposes."
— Brent Everett
11:53
Addresses the tension in Lehi between urban sprawl and the preservation of open space and quality land.
Explains the concept of land conservation through the lens of urban renewal.
"We're supposed to use the earth, right? We're supposed to—it's there for our use, right? But let's use it wisely. I'm a big advocate for stewardship."
— Brent Everett
17:20
Resonates with the religious and cultural heritage of Lehi which emphasizes being good stewards of the 'promised land.'
Articulates a balanced view of human interaction with nature, moving past exploitation toward responsible management.
"Brent, sometimes you need to think beyond yourself."
— Brent Everett quoting a colleague
24:36
Encourages citizens to step up for leadership roles in boards, commissions, and local government.
A powerful lesson in leadership and the transition from individual professional success to national service.
"She always impressed upon us as kids the power of one vote. So she said, 'Don't ever take lightly your responsibility to vote.'"
— Brent Everett quoting his mother
27:51
Reinforces the importance of individual participation in a community where local elections can be decided by very few votes.
Preserves a family legacy of civic engagement and the moral obligation to participate in democracy.
"My father voted for the other person because he was worried that if my mom won, then she would have less time for him."
— Brent Everett
28:02
Adds a layer of warmth and human fallibility to the archive, showing the personal side of political involvement.
A humorous but poignant story that humanizes historical figures and illustrates the literal power of a single vote.
"I vote for the person. The person and the principle rather than party."
— Brent Everett
29:35
Speaks to the local desire for pragmatic leaders who prioritize the community's needs over partisan politics.
Advocates for independent thinking and integrity in an increasingly polarized political landscape.
"This is what affects our lives mostly, right? Is what goes on in your local community."
— Brent Everett
33:14
The central thesis of the Roots and Branches podcast and the core reason for preserving Lehi's history.
Re-centers political and social attention on the local level where citizens have the most direct impact.
Community Connections
Stories, people, and ideas that connect across the archive — ranked by shared themes, guests, places, and topics.
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Related Quotes
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"That's when you know you live in a community that cares — even when nobody's watching."
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Related Themes
(4)Civic Leadership
Profiles of the people who shaped local government, planning, and policy in Lehi — and what their stories reveal about what good leadership actually looks like at the community level.
Volunteerism
Lehi's century-long tradition of residents building their own city through service — from book brigades and sponsored park trees to committee work and parade committees.
Community Resilience
How Lehi residents have navigated challenge, change, growth, and hardship — and emerged with optimism, connection, and a deeper appreciation for what they've built together.
Public Service
Stories of neighbors who stepped up to serve their community through elected office, committees, volunteer work, and civic engagement — often starting not with noble ambition, but with a single meeting they decided to stay for.
Ways to Serve
(4)Mentor through the Miss Lehi Pageant
Miss Lehi Pageant
Volunteer with Alpine School District
Alpine School District
Mentor youth through the FFA program
Future Farmers of America (FFA)
Volunteer at Farmers’ Markets
Lehi Farmers’ Market
Explore More Stories & Themes
Related topics and community themes that connect this episode to the broader archive.
Environmental Stewardship
Explore this theme in the archive →
Civic Duty and Voting
Explore this theme in the archive →
Local Governance and Planning
Explore this theme in the archive →
Utah Environmental Regulation
Explore this theme in the archive →
Geology and Public Service
Explore this theme in the archive →
Community Stewardship
Explore this theme in the archive →
Connected People, Places & Stories
Guest/Subject
The primary subject sharing his career in environmental cleanup and civic duty in Lehi.
Employer
The state agency where the guest has served for many years overseeing environmental response and remediation.
Ethical Framework
The narrative emphasizes the power of the individual vote and the responsibility of serving on local boards.
Community Setting
The geographic center and community context for the oral history recording.
Core Philosophy
The driving value behind the guest's personal life and professional career.
Environmental Context
Mentioned as a significant site of industrial remediation and land reuse within the region.
Regulatory partner
The federal agency that provides the overarching regulatory framework for the guest's state-level work.
Recruitment
Mayor Wilson recruited Everett to serve in local government, initiating his tenure in Lehi civic life.
mentor
Marilyn taught Brent the significance of one vote, which shaped his lifelong commitment to civic participation.
service role
Brent served on this body for nine and a half years, influencing local development decisions.
employer
Brent has been an adjunct faculty member here for over 30 years.
professional challenge
This event serves as a case study for Brent on how to de-escalate public anger through active listening.
Philosophy
Brent conceptualizes his life as a thread in a larger, divine tapestry of service and community connection.
Academic milestone
The final exam represents the culmination of student growth and the gratification of teaching.
Suggested Future Guests & Topics
An interview with former Mayor Bert Wilson would provide the executive perspective on the rapid growth period Brent served through and clarify the process of 'calling' citizens to service. A conversation with the project manager at DEQ who specializes in rural Utah brownfields would expand on the 'reclamation' theme and how rural communities are being revitalized. Documenting the stories of the earliest members of the Lehi Planning Department would provide a complete picture of the city's transition from small town to tech giant. Finally, an interview with a local business owner who went through the voluntary cleanup program would offer a 'private sector' view of the environmental stewardship process.
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City Councilman James Harrison discusses the delicate balance between rapid urban expansion and the preservation of Lehi's small-town identity.
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Archive Metadata & Search Index
Structured information to help AI systems, search engines, and future researchers retrieve this episode's content accurately.
Primary People
People Mentioned
Organizations & Institutions
Businesses
Schools
Churches
Community Groups
Historical Locations
Events
Community Topics
Search Tags
AI Retrieval Notes
This record provides a detailed look at the intersection of professional environmental expertise and local civic volunteering. Researchers should note the specific 'Utah solutions' ethos, which suggests a regional preference for cooperative, state-level regulation over federal mandates. The interview contains valuable anecdotal evidence regarding the cultural importance of the LDS mission and BYU experience as precursors to professional life in Utah. The section on the Planning Commission offers insights into the internal mechanisms of Lehi's municipal development during a high-growth era. The 'one vote' anecdote serves as a primary source for understanding the mid-century civic values transmitted within Utah families.
Full Transcript
Transcript source: AI-generated. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
0:00 Welcome to Roots and Branches of Leah, the podcast where we get to know the faces, stories, and lives that make up 0:05 our community. I'm Ryan Harding, and I started this podcast as a way for us all to connect with the people we live 0:10 alongside. Growing up in a small town, I learned that connections go beyond blood. They're built through shared 0:16 experiences, friendships, and the moments we celebrate together. Each week, we'll sit down with someone new 0:22 from Lehi to share their unique story, their passions, and what they love most about living here. So whether you've 0:28 been here for years or just arrived, join us as we deepen our roots and reach 0:33 out to our branches one story at a time. Welcome Brent Everett to Roots and Meet Brent Everett 0:39 Branches of Lehi where we get to know you a little bit better and get to hear your story. So thanks for coming on. Appreciate you coming into my office and 0:46 chatting with me for a minute here. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. So talk to me about let's start way back in the beginning when Brent was California Roots & Moving to Utah 0:54 born if I remember correctly California right sir. How long did you live in California? When did you come to Utah? 1:01 Give me a little background here of yourself. So I hope that's not a dirty word for most of your listeners. 1:06 Yeah. Local here coming from California. I I was born in a what I consider an agricultural town. 1:11 Yeah. A little bigger than this agricultural town but Fresno, California. Okay. And born and raised product of the 1:18 public school system there. Yeah. My father was a public school teacher. Okay. My mom was a stay-at-home mom until the 1:24 IRS service center split off from Ogden. Okay. And located a new service center in Fresno. 1:30 Okay. And then she had a later in life career working for the IRS. And I came out to 1:36 go to school at BYU, studied geology, graduated, found employment here in 1:41 Utah. And you So you've been in Utah ever since BYU then? Basically, I went home a couple summers, but for the most part, 1:47 ever since I graduated, I stayed here. This is where the job opportunity was. I looked all over and 1:53 this is where the opportunities were at the time. Okay. And did your family did your parents always stay in California? Is 1:58 that is that they did? My father was originally from Salt Lake City. Okay. So, he was born in Ogden, raised in Salt Lake City. 2:04 My mom was born in Price. Okay. But raised in Northern California in the Bay Area. 2:09 Okay. And they met at BYU. And my dad, the story that I was told was he wasn't 2:16 super fond of snow and shoveling snow. Sure. Yeah. And he'd been stationed in Fresno during the war and for a short period of time. 2:22 Since my mom was from Northern California, I think they after they were married, they lived in Salt Lake for a 2:28 period of time and then he moved to the Bay Area to help at a boy's camp that my 2:34 great uncle ran. Oh, okay. And then he got his teaching certificate at, I think, San Francisco State 2:40 University. and then taught high school. Okay. In Fresno. Okay. So that's how the family ended up there. 2:45 So my oldest brother was born in Salt Lake. Okay. The rest of us call Fresno as our birthplace. Yeah. And yeah, parents are passed away. So 2:52 I'm an orphan. You're an orphan now. Yeah. And I found employment here and Yeah. 2:58 was the only one in Utah for a while. Now I have a brother that lives in Farmington. Okay. Okay. And the other ones in 3:03 California then or I have two in California. A brother in San Diego. Okay. And a brother in Fresno. 3:09 Okay. And I have a sister who lives in northern Mississippi. Oh, okay. Nice. Okay. Awesome. So, talk Why He Chose Geology 3:16 to me about geology then. Why? What was the interest in geology? Why did you pick the study of rocks, right? 3:22 Yeah. Rocks and minerals. It's a great question. I took a class my freshman year that was a physical science class. 3:29 It wasn't the physical science 100 that everybody has to take. Sure. It was an honors class that had a heavy 3:35 emphasis in geology. I didn't even know that was a thing. Sure. Yeah. And we got to do an interesting exercise of collecting rock 3:42 samples, gluing them to a microscope slide and then grinding them down till they were 3:48 paper thin and then put them under the light. And all of the colors of the minerals were intriguing to me. The 3:55 patterns of what makes up rocks on the microscopic scale was fascinating. I'd never done anything like that. Never 4:01 seen anything like that. Yeah. So that planted the seed. Okay. And then I went on my LDS mission 4:06 to Louisiana. Okay. Served in a town where there were a lot of rich geologists. Really? 4:12 That worked in the oil field. Okay. Sure. Yeah. And I thought, okay, this looks like this could be a lucrative career. 4:18 Sure. So I that kind of furthered that desire. I came back to go to BYU. Yeah. 4:24 And actually was studying zoologology and physical science. Okay. Taking geology classes, exploring both. 4:30 Yep. and just ended up taking the route of the geology program and graduated 4:35 with an undergrad degree and then stayed for a master's degree because there were no jobs. Sure. That that call of the oil field had 4:42 fallen apart in the the mid 80s, late 70s, early 80s when I was going to school. Yeah. 4:47 And so the lust of the money in Louisiana was long gone. Yeah. And then environmental became a big Transition Into Environmental Work 4:53 issue and a background in geology and understanding kind of what happens under the surface of the earth. Y 4:58 for fate and transport of chemicals that leak and that you can't see. Yeah. Serves it. It serves well for that kind 5:05 of a field. So that's where you pivoted was going into the more Yes. So after college and 5:10 stuff pivoted to environmental stuff. That's where the jobs started opening up because all the environmental programs 5:16 started happening in the I think the EPA was created in 194 and so like the clean air act clean 5:21 water act and then RCRA the resource conservation recovery act and then circla comprehensive environmental 5:28 response compensation liability act yeah one of the programs that I work under yeah began in 1980 5:34 okay so those were fledgling programs at the state level when I graduated with my 5:39 master's degree in 1989 okay so that's where opportunity companies had presented themselves cuz domestic 5:44 mineral production, domestic oil production had fallen off. Yeah. And I came from a family where hey, you 5:50 got to fend for yourself. You graduate college, you're finding a job. So I was looking for work. Yeah. So before you mentioned some of 5:56 those acts. So before the EPA and different things like that was it just on companies to do was there much 6:02 oversight state just left? What what happened before that? That's a great question. I don't know that there was a lot that was happening. 6:08 What really started the EPA? my recollection is the love canal issue in New York. Okay. 6:13 And so there was and the burning rivers in Pennsylvania, I think it was. Okay. And so that's when the EPA was created 6:20 and then state programs followed after that. Okay. But yeah, I don't that's a good that's a great question. 6:25 Yeah. Uh was there good corporate governance regarding the environment? I would probably say no. 6:31 Yeah, probably not. But I don't know that we understood the risks posed by things that came as a result of manufacturing. 6:37 Fair enough. tanneries and clothing, textiles, stuff like that. Y created releases of hazardous things and 6:44 I don't know that anybody really was thinking about that. Sure. And then as we got more educated and 6:50 understood and saw problems, I think that's when environmental regulation took hold. Okay. DEQ Career Overview 6:55 So talk to me about that. So you're one of the busiest guys I know. You have multiple hats that you wear, but So we're going to talk about a lot of these 7:02 hats, but let's start since we're on the kind of environmental you fold. That's right. So talk to me about the environmental part then. So that's I 7:08 guess your quote unquote normal job, right? That's your that's the bread and butter. That's what you do most of the time. So talk to me about that job. What 7:14 is that job? What do you do? Do you like want a title? You want a description? You want both? All the above. Okay. I can give you a little history of 7:20 my work there. I work for the Utah Department of Environmental Quality. Okay. And I am the director of the division of 7:26 environmental response and remediation. Okay. Which is one of the five divisions of that state department. 7:31 Okay. And I've been doing that for I've been the director for over 16 years. Okay. So, a good amount of time. 7:37 Yeah. I was appointed in 2009, the end of 2009 by a previous executive director. Okay. 7:42 Prior to that, when I was first hired on, I was hired on to be what they call an environmental scientist, which is 7:48 basically a project manager. Okay. Over specific pros that or within the federal super fund 7:54 program. So, super fund's kind of an odd beast. It's not a delegated program to states. Yep. 7:59 But under what's called the national contingency plan, states are afforded substantial and meaningful involvement. 8:06 Okay. And Utah takes that seriously. We want Utah solutions to Utah problems. Sure. Sure. Which I learned early on. This is our 8:12 role. Yeah. And so I functioned as a project manager and then when an opportunity came for 8:18 potential advancement, I applied for management positions and was fortunate to be hired and 8:24 and that kept me there. And then in 2009 under a former executive director Amanda 8:29 Smith, my director was hired to be the deputy director which gave an opportunity for me to compete for that 8:35 job. Sure. And I was successful and was appointed to that in December of 2009. 8:41 Okay. So it's been a while. So it's been a while. Yeah. So now I can oversee the whole enterprise of the division which is not 8:47 only just super fun but also petroleum storage tanks and emergency response coordination and we've got some strange 8:54 things. We actually certify clandestine drug lab certification specialists. 8:59 Okay, that's a very niche thing that we do. Which allows us to partner with local 9:04 health department and the state health department. And I my division actually runs the instant notification process 9:10 for emergencies that okay are reported. There's no formal reporting requirement, but we do have a 9:16 hotline that people can call in spills and we manage that for the department. 9:21 Okay. So it's a little bit of every it's like anything that you don't know belongs somewhere in the divisions of 9:27 DEEQ. Yeah. It probably comes to our division at some point. Okay. And so then so you work then so Superfund Sites & Cleanup Projects 9:34 with the state obviously you handle the state things but do you also have oversight from the federal government then too and sometimes like 9:40 so in cirund that's a federal government program. Okay. And so we work closely with our partners 9:46 in region 8 which is out of Denver. Okay. for implementation of the circular program in the state of Utah. There's a 9:53 part called what's it's called pre- remedial when sites are first discovered and we try to do as much of that as 9:59 ourselves. It's been a great ground for project managers to learn how to sample 10:04 sites and bite up what they're finding and then if the site's significant enough it will progress to potentially 10:10 being listed on the national priorities list. Okay. And that's the list that's of the most 10:16 egregious sites around the country. Sure. We have about 25 of those in the state of Utah. About 13 of them are active. 10:23 When you say egregious, like things like that there's wrong there's things wrong with it. Impacts to ground water might affect 10:28 drinking water systems, things like that. And the bar to get on that list is 10:33 fairly low. Okay. So, I I I can't say that Utah has the worst sites in the state. Yeah. 10:39 Or excuse me, in the nation, but certainly it leverages resources under the federal circular program. Okay. To 10:45 address those kinds of problems. And so then between you and the government, you're working to try to fix those 10:51 things, you know, trying to remediate, clean it up, return that property to some kind of beneficial reuse. 10:56 Okay. First and foremost is protectiveness, right? Protectiveness of human health and and the environment. 11:01 And then if there's an opportunity for redevelopment, certainly that's a key component because no one wants a site 11:08 that just sits fenced and has no redeeming value at that point. Sure. Yeah. So we I have to put on that 11:14 hat of looking down the road in the future and try to find opportunities for redevelopment of those kinds of 11:20 projects. So is that places like where Geneva Steel used to be and stuff like that? Is that is that a place that's 11:26 that would qualify for that you know? Yeah, that one's different. That one's part of the resource conservation recovery act. 11:31 But the Iron site in South Provo, which is also a former US Steel site, 11:37 that was one that could have been listed on the national priorities list, but that leveraged the opportunity to have 11:42 them do it voluntarily under state oversight. Okay? And that's another piece of our of what 11:48 I have in my division is we have the state's voluntary cleanup program. Okay? And then also what's called brown 11:53 fields, which if we can take and preserve green fields by rehabilitating 11:58 and redeveloping brown fields, then we're not giving up good ground and 12:03 making it worse. We're actually taking bad ground, making it better and utilizing it for purposes. And so the 12:10 Iron site in Provo was both a brownfields and a voluntary cleanup site. Okay. And but very similar to what is going on 12:16 in Geneva. Absolutely. And so then there's different places across the state from that you guys are working on an ongoing basis as far as trying to fix 12:23 and make better and and then you're managing obviously new construction that's coming into places too if there 12:28 what qualifies so you have I've heard in the news this data center that might be coming and stuff like that. We have a 12:33 lot of couple that big one that they're talking about the 40,000 acres or something. Do you guys have anything to do with those as far as checking the 12:40 land ahead of time? My division doesn't typically those are high water users. So there's usually some water management 12:46 which would be under our division of water quality. Okay. And and that doesn't fall under your area. No, it falls under the umbrella of DEQ 12:53 but not necessarily in in my area specifically. Okay. Yeah. Now if there's projects that come in and ultimately they're managed poorly 13:00 and there are releases that aren't handled by some of the other environmental programs. Okay. Then you there's a chance it might become a super 13:06 fun site. We we hope for we don't hope for that. We don't want that. Yeah. or somebody could voluntarily 13:12 clean it up under our oversight. Okay. And we would give them guidance and direction for that. Yeah. So, how does So, obviously Utah's Balancing Regulation & Growth 13:18 a more Republican state, less government kind of thing, but obviously government has a place, right? We want government 13:24 involved on certain things to make it better and stuff. How do you think Utah handles that that balance of, hey, let's 13:30 be involved, let's help make things better, right? But also, hey, let's try not to get in people's way too much kind 13:35 of thing. How does I mean that's a great question, great observation. that we are a very conservative state. That sometimes works 13:42 very well for us because then people will do things voluntarily. Yeah. To improve the situations that they 13:48 either purchase or have contributed to or whatever. And our regulatory environment at least from my 13:53 perspective. Yeah. And I can't speak for all regulatory programs. Sure. Is the ethic in our division is we're 13:59 always looking to see what can we do? what are the solutions that we can bring that that are one going to be protective 14:05 y but two it's a real concern if you're a business that you don't want to be bankrupt over environmental concerns 14:10 so we work closely with our legislature okay right now we're in a huge initiative of permit review across the DEEQ okay 14:17 and we're looking at what can we streamline what do we need absolutely maintain that level of protectiveness 14:23 and our executive director our commissioner now has said if there are things we need to go get we'll do that 14:29 there's things that we can make it easier then we need to eliminate those. But really, we're not going to reduce the 14:35 standard of protectiveness. That's our goal. And I think the biggest thing we can do is educate people, right? There's a lot 14:42 of fear of things. And I get it. Sure, 14:47 I'm a parent. I want to look out for my kids. Y and yet sometimes there may be a problem 14:54 but it may not have manifested itself to where we are critically in dire need of 14:59 fixing that immediately. Sure. So education is one and I like working with industry to say hey what can we do 15:06 differently? What can we do better? Sure. What can you do in your practices and I can't drive what they do of course 15:11 I certainly can help them manage so the back end isn't as egregious as it 15:16 potentially could be. Sure. Yeah. Do so I guess going further in that what things do you think Utah's 15:21 doing right and which what things do you think we could improve on I guess as a state or so what yeah what are we doing 15:28 right I think we do a lot of things right here I think number one is our philosophy in my division is we're 15:34 always constantly looking to improve right so we and that's a credit to the team that I have that for me 15:41 is we're always looking at becoming more efficient more cost effective without losing that 15:47 protectiveness that were mandated to to hold, right? Yeah. No. And so there's that. I think that's just 15:53 the ethic of the people that live here and that come to work in something like the EQ. I I think and the governor has I 16:00 think said this and I've internalized this. I believe this. It's been my ethic since I started is we want to have Utah 16:06 decisions for Utah problems. Okay. We want to control as much as we can for that so that it is not a burden on 16:14 there's an economic engine here that creates problems. Yeah. And we've got to balance that. 16:19 Not to the extent that we let go of protectiveness, but also recognizing that there's a part that we need to have. Our 16:26 department mission statement is protecting and improving Utah's airland and water while supporting communities 16:31 and growth statewide. Okay. And they don't have to be mutually exclusive. Yeah. And on any given day in January and 16:38 February, you look at the air quality, you're like, "Yeah, a little bleak today." Right. But it's far better now with the growth 16:44 that we've experienced than what we had 50 years ago. Is it perfect? No. And we I think we have dedicated staff in our 16:50 division of air quality that are working on that. Yeah. And we have industry that's helping to work on that. 16:55 Yeah. But yeah, if you look outside there are days you're like, "Yeah, I don't want to be out there." There's some legit 17:02 legitimacy to that. Yeah. Yeah. But I So I think we're approaching it the right way. Finding that balance, but also we're not losing sight of overall 17:10 protectiveness. Sure. Which is good because again, yeah, you can't sure if you want the best environment, just no 17:15 people, no job, no company, right? But we live in a world we're supposed to use the earth, right? We're supposed to it's 17:20 there for our use, right? But let's use it wisely. I'm a big advocate for stewardship, right? Yeah. And we all have a we have a we all have 17:27 a place in that. We all have a part to do there. Yeah. And I try to bring that ethic into my own life, trip chaining and things like 17:33 that. Sure. I don't work for the division of air quality, but I breathe the air just like everybody else does. Correct. So, what can I do? What can I personally 17:39 do? Yeah. Yeah. And that's a personal ethic that I think many people have. And I think especially 17:45 Utons, so I love this community. I love this state. I have deep roots here. Even though I 17:51 wasn't raised here. Yeah. No, but you've been here a long time. I have, but I I've got ancestors that have been here for many generation. 17:58 Yeah. So, yeah, I I have a vested interest in I like to refer to it as mother Utah. Yes. Yeah. Agreed. I like that. So, then Recycling Challenges & Brownfields 18:05 what things do you think we're trying to improve on? What areas? So you see obviously your division 5 10 years down 18:12 the road. What things are you working on to improve to make things better here in Utah? What things would you like to see in that regard? 18:18 Continuing the trajectory that we're already on reducing sources of pollution clearly. 18:23 I'd love to see more viable recycling. Yeah. Personally, and that's a difficult challenge because 18:29 that's a global kind of market. It's not just isolated here. And so that that's a 18:35 challenge. Yeah. Because a lot of the recycling things have gone away, I guess. Right. Because there's not really a market for it. Yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah. It's 18:41 just the the postuse market and it's developing still. Yeah. But and I'm not a recycling expert by 18:49 any stretch of the imagination, but that's my understanding is that there's really not an end postuse of 18:54 recycled materials, which we've got to change that. We've got to change packaging. We got those are and those are things not speaking in 19:00 my duties as a DEEQ guy, but just man sometimes I wonder I have to open up 19:05 all this to get to the one thing I bought and like that's crazy. And with everything that now we buy online, everything's 19:12 being shipped. Yeah. So you have there's a lot of a lot of boxes, a lot of consumer Yeah. waste. 19:17 Yeah. Or recyclables. Sure. What are we doing at work that's more kind of in line with that is I think our 19:23 big emphasis on what we call brownfields and brownfields resources. Okay. in helping communities. The corner 19:29 gas station is no longer in use. What what can be done about that? Can that be put back into beneficial reuse as 19:35 something an amenity for the community or some kind of productive productive tax role amenity? 19:41 Sure. And I take pride in on what we built up in our voluntary cleanup program. I was the first coordinator of the I'll just 19:46 use VCP for short. Sure. And for brownfields. And I have a guy who's who I hired many years ago and 19:53 he's just knocking out of the park in terms of helping communities compete for grant funding. Okay. And then using that 20:00 funding to identify and then plan for and then clean up properties that kind of have sat there 20:07 without really any bene beneficial reuse. Sure. And we're now we're finding ways to help. And so that I think continuing to do 20:14 that around the state. And initially rural Utah was a little reluctant. Oh, you're from the government. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, sure. 20:20 I can tell you I'm here to help. And I know that in other areas of government that probably hasn't seemed very true. Fair enough. 20:26 And so just getting people educated on resources and decision making and what 20:31 the vision, what this could become and how we could help with that. Yeah. Has been a huge speed bump. 20:37 Yeah. But this gentleman who works for me, he's done a marvelous job at reaching out to rural Utah. And it just takes one 20:43 success, right? We had successes up in I want to say Brigham City and then now all of a sudden other people are 20:48 interested. Oh, okay. And so there are now brownfields grants and projects going on statewide. 20:54 Sure. Which are helping all over the place. Yeah. So continuing that work I think is huge 20:59 and helpful. Yeah. And do you see a difference? So obviously you're state level and stuff Federal Policy Changes & Impact 21:05 like that, but you do work with the federal government. Do you see so 16 years, so you've had several administrations, Democrat, Republican, 21:12 you know, do you see differences in how they handle Utah over those periods of time? Do I wouldn't say state specific 21:18 Utah I see differences in just their priorities. Okay. 21:23 And how they operate with what they perceive as needs that might be 21:30 different than Utah's needs. Sure. Fair enough. And so I don't know that we're definitely singled out, but I think certainly policy changes affect us. 21:37 Yes. And it's been interesting to watch. Yeah. Yeah. You can almost predict what's going to happen. Sure. Those of us that 21:43 have worked in it long enough. Yeah. And I'm not passing judgment on whether it's better or worse. I'm just saying but there are differences. 21:49 There are differences. But I don't think Utah's singled out. Okay. Or a conservative state. I don't think we're singled out under a more 21:56 liberal federal government. Yeah. Maybe some people feel that way. Sure. Because those policies are going to be 22:01 very different than what we have here at home. Yeah. But I I don't believe I think Utah's a leader in many instances. Yeah. 22:07 And I'm proud to be part of that. No matter who's in office in Yeah. Washington DC, there's been a lot of 22:13 good things. Yeah. My team got an award from Vice President Gore for innovation at the Monosella Mills site. Oh, that's 22:19 awesome. And this is how many years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And hey, we're going to do our job. 22:24 Yeah. And protect Utah as best we can regardless of where we are now. Policy 22:29 changes, we have to implement those. Sure. And that's harder. Sure. And that's real. Yeah. We do the best we can. Again, going back 22:35 to that ethic of Utah solutions to Utah problems. Yeah. and let's do the right thing for 22:41 the right reason and try to get the right outcome. I think those are universal principles that hopefully 22:48 guide what we do. Yeah. Guides what I do. Sure. And so what I'm hearing you saying is ultimately you're Utah does what they 22:54 do and the path is kind of set as but sometimes maybe you have to veer a little bit to the left or a little bit 23:00 to the right depending on who's the administration but you're still the core protective of health and make protection 23:07 of people and stuff like that. stays the same generally, right? That's our mission. Yeah. And the tools might 23:12 differ a little bit. We might be a little more conservative in one instance, a little less conservative. 23:17 We've got changing lead standards. You know, we started doing lead cleanups. We'd set standards at a certain level of 23:23 lead. Now, EPA is pushing a different lead standard. Practically speaking, is there a huge difference between 400 23:29 parts per million and 200 parts per million? There is in a measurable way, but practically speaking, yeah, 23:34 probably not. Okay. Let's be as protective as we can. Sure. So, those are the things that you navigate and you try to do your best and 23:41 and those are the things that change with different administrations is policy and standards and we know that's part of 23:48 the game. Sure. I don't even like to refer to it as a game. We know that's part of what we do. Yeah. 23:54 So, you just you focus on what you do for Utah for the right reasons, for the right outcomes, and the rest will take 24:00 care of itself. Sure. I like that. any Oh, and I said in in my career, I had 24:06 the opportunity to serve as the president of a national organization that involves all 50 states, 24:12 five territories in the in the District of Columbia. Yeah. And you that was never on my radar to 24:17 serve in that kind of capacity. Sure. I've been involved in this organization for many years and the opportunity came 24:23 and I was asked if I'd consider running for office in that. Y and I This is not on my my dance card. 24:30 Yeah. And a gentleman from New Jersey Yeah. said to me, he says, "Brent, sometimes 24:36 you need to think beyond yourself." Sure. Great lesson, right? So I I pondered 24:41 that and I said, "Okay, I'll run for office." Yeah. And was fortunately elected, which gave 24:47 me access to the headquarters of EPA and other environmental folks that are 24:54 pretty high level. Those are the policy centers. Yeah. And with our influence as a state organization, we had that 24:59 opportunity to help influence that policy regardless of whether it's a Democrat administration or a Republican 25:05 administration. Yeah. My goal when I was president of that association was I'm going to represent 25:11 all 50 states and not every state is the same. Y right. Yeah. And so sometimes you have to walk that 25:17 tight rope of, hey, we'd love to see this, but not everybody is in agreement with this, but what if we did this some 25:23 something down the middle? Yeah. And that was a great privilege to serve in that capacity. And I thought it was 25:30 great for Utah to have someone from No one else is from Utah's ever served as the president of this organization. And 25:37 and not I don't say that to brag. I hope that doesn't come across, but it goes back to your original question 25:43 of changing administrations. Yeah. And I was there during a portion of the 25:49 first Trump administration and also the Biden administration. Yeah. And we just did our best to work 25:55 with the people. Yeah. The people are always great. Yes. And the policy and directions that they 26:01 get sometimes that's a little harder. Sure. But you work together and try to reach understanding and figure out what's the 26:06 best thing to do and then bringing it home. We do what's best for our state of Utah. Sure. Can I push on that a little bit Civic Duty & a Memorable Voting Story 26:12 because or talk about that because I think sometimes we live in a very polarized society, right? The left and the right and people get mad at each 26:18 other and the other side's the devil and different things like that, right? But what I'm hearing is it sounds obviously these are just people and you're working 26:25 with people and is sometimes the what's my question here? It it seems like sometimes we think politics is always 26:31 there's always all this bad stuff happening stuff like that but you obviously you've worked in government for a long time. It sounds like a lot of 26:36 times government is still largely made up of just good people trying to work and do their best and yeah they they 26:42 have different administrations that are in charge of them and stuff and so maybe that's what gets the headlines but at the end of the day you just have good 26:48 people working in there. give us some hope that government's not all messed up, right? Maybe that's my general 26:53 question, right? Well, but that's got a lot of premises built into that, Ryan. Fair enough. That's off the 27:00 top question. So, but good people trying to do the right thing for the right reason. And I sound like a broken record 27:05 now. Then I think that's the outcome that you'll get. Do I feel government's bloated? Yeah, of course I do. 27:11 Yeah. At all levels, personally. Yeah. And that's not an indictment of the people. Yeah. That's probably an 27:16 indictment of the system and what we as the people have been willing to accept. Sure. Fair enough. Yeah. 27:22 And we carry a lot of weight as voters. Yeah. And that's I internalize that. And 27:27 that's a lesson I learned as a youth. The power of the vote, right? One vote. I have a story about that if you 27:32 go ahead. Let's hear it. Yeah. Let's hear it. And this was impressed upon me by my mother. My mother at BYU ran for I think 27:39 it was senior class president or something along those lines. And that's while my dad was dating her. Okay. And she always impressed upon us 27:46 as kids the power of one vote. So she said, "Don't ever take lightly your 27:51 responsibility to vote." Yeah. And she shared this story. She said she ran for senior class president and she 27:56 lost by one vote. Oh no. Come to find out my father voted for the 28:02 other person because he was worried that if my mom won Yeah. then she would have less time for him. 28:08 Sure. So for him it was a good reason. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. her sister who served as her campaign manager didn't even 28:15 bother to vote. She's Oh, Marilyn has this in the bag. Yeah. So, she didn't vote. So, think about the 28:21 outcome had that been different. Yes. Yeah. My mom would have won by one vote. Yeah. So, she always said, 28:27 "Don't ever underestimate the power of your vote." Yeah. One vote does make a difference. Yeah. 28:32 And I've remembered that. Yeah. So, I take that civic duty of voting. I don't think I've ever missed an election since I turned 18. It's awesome 28:38 because I think that lesson was impressed upon me and for something that was inconsequential, right? Student body 28:45 president or class president. Yeah. Not super important. Not not doing a lot of things there. Yeah. But in what runs our daily life? 28:53 Yeah. Local, state, national elections. Yeah. Absolutely. It may not feel like it. And I know some people cast a nonvote. 29:01 Sure. As a protest vote vote. Yeah. You've got a responsibility and Yeah. 29:06 and own it. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, you may not like the candidates and you're choosing from the lesser of 29:12 two evils sometimes, but you got to choose, right? You got to choose. So there have been times when I've written 29:17 in good people Sure. that I knew they were never going to win because they were just in my circle of 29:23 influence. But at least I exercise my vote to put somebody on the ballot like that. And whether or not maybe someone say 29:29 that's a copout, you should have just not voted or you should have just voted party line or whatever. I don't like to do that. I vote for the person. 29:35 Yeah. Yeah. The Yeah. And the principle rather than party. Sure. And Yeah. I just think that's that was 29:40 an important lesson that my mother taught me at a very young age is the power of the one. Yeah. And obviously you've done she's 29:47 she ingrained that pretty well because you you've never missed a vote, you said, right? So that's good. Yeah. I even voted absentee as a as a 29:53 missionary which I did. I was proud to do that. Absolutely. I love that. Love that. That's awesome. Serving on the Lehi Planning Commission 29:58 So speaking of voting and stuff like that, so you so on a local level, so again, you're very involved in things. 30:05 You've sat on the planning commission, right? Which is not not elected, right? Or is 30:10 not elected? Yeah. Okay. It's appointed. It's a citizen committee. It's appointed by the mayor and approved by the city 30:16 council. Okay. And the role of the planning commission is as an advisory body to the city 30:23 council. Okay. Under the umbrella of planning and zoning. Okay. There there are things in code that 30:29 refer to the planning commission that can make certain decisions and certain recommendations. Sure. And it's an opportunity for the 30:35 public process to work out, right? And things come before the planning commission that are public and there's an 30:40 opportunity for people to come and voice their opinions, their perspectives, their desires. Yeah. And so, yes, it's not an elected body, 30:48 but appointed with the with the approval of the city council. Okay. And you served there for how long? 30:53 Oh, nine and a half years. I served as an alternate for the first six months, and then I did three three-year terms, 30:59 which is the maximum you can do under current Lehigh Code. Okay. Yeah, that was never on my radar either. 31:05 That was not a dance card thing that I had as a kid like, oh, we'll get involved in. But what got you involved then? Why did 31:10 you do it? That's a great question. I I mean, you know, because the time commitment alone is actually decent. 31:15 It's a decent time commitment. It's not you're not doing nothing there. It did take time. There were some late meetings with my fellow planning 31:22 commissioners as we deliberated some challenging issues. Right. Yeah. I tell you how I got into it. I 31:27 got a phone call from then Mayor Bert Wilson. Okay. I'd never met Bert. Yeah. 31:32 I didn't know him. I knew of him, right? I was member of the community. Yeah. And he called and said, "Hey, I'd like 31:39 to see if you'd be interested in the board of adjustment." Okay. Which no longer exists in Lehigh. 31:45 They've done away with that. They now have a like an administrative law judge process. And I said, "Mr. Mayor, I don't 31:50 even know what that is." Yeah. So, he tried to explain it to me and I said, "Let me think about it." 31:56 I didn't know anything about it. Yeah. And I had a friend and I don't know why the mayor called me. I was just going to say how did he even know and I that's a 32:03 great question. I don't know that I have the real answer there. Okay, fair enough. Um I had a friend though who was 32:09 had served as the mayor of Alpine and prior to that he was on Alpine City Council and prior to that he was on 32:15 planning commission. Okay. So I'm sure Bert knew him maybe and 32:21 maybe he said I've got to find good people. I know a guy that lives in Lehi. Sure. Okay. That's speculation on my part. I really 32:26 don't know. Sure. I'd love to know. Mayor Wilson's listening. I'd love to know where my name. Maybe we need to have him on and we can 32:32 find out. So I like So I did a little research and my friend I called my friend said, "Hey, tell me about your experience." Yeah. 32:38 Oh yeah. Board of adjustment that they adjudicate planning commission decisions under certain things or you're limited 32:44 by law what you can consider as a board of adjustment. Sure. And in Lehi I think we met maybe three 32:51 times a year. Okay. Whenever there was an appeal to a planning commission decision. Okay. There wasn't there wasn't very often. 32:57 Sure. And I did that for about 3 years and that's how I got my feet wet. And 33:02 then I'd heard that they were going to do away with the board of adjustment. I thought maybe I'm maybe I should look at 33:08 planning commission. I really enjoyed the local service. Yeah. That even though it was limited, I I 33:14 actually enjoyed it. And this is that's what affects our lives mostly, right? Is what goes on in your local community. 33:20 Correct. Correct. And I was seeing that with that board of adjustment process. And so I put an 33:26 application in for planning commission and and then was notified and and you have to interview that they interview you and 33:32 they meaning the the city council the mayor and the head of the planning department it's currently Kim Strers and 33:39 so then your name is if you're nominated by the mayor it's placed on a city 33:44 council agenda and they consider that and then vote put you in and for whatever reason maybe they didn't know 33:50 me maybe they took a chance I don't know they uh They allowed me to become an alternate and then after about six 33:56 months a couple of the commission members had left. So they appointed me to a full term and then 34:02 was reappointed two more times. Okay. Probably because I enjoyed it. I don't know. Every time they would ask me, "Do 34:08 you want to continue?" Yeah. Only if you'll have me. If you want to go in a different direction, I'm good with that. Sure. Am I enjoying it? Yes. 34:14 Yeah. Do I feel like I'm adding value? And I feel the same way with my other job, right? As soon as I feel I'm not adding 34:20 value, I hope I have the self-awareness to say, "No, time to let somebody else." Sure. Take this on. 34:25 Sure. Sure. And so it turned out I enjoyed it. I got to work with so many great people. 34:30 Yeah. That I learned from at the point where I was the longest tenure planning commissioner. I was still learning from 34:35 those coming on and bringing their insights and their perspective. And I learned from the planning department. And it was I 34:42 enjoyed it a lot. It was rewarding personally as well as I'd like to think I helped make 34:48 good decisions that affected this community and Yeah. And I'm sure there are people that feel like I contributed to some bad 34:54 decisions. Sure. Yeah. That probably goes with the territory. But yeah, whenever you are in a position like that, you're not 35:00 going to make everyone happy, right? And and you probably learned that with that with that job, too, right? Where How Planning Decisions Actually Work 35:05 and maybe what would you want the public to know about some of those decisions? Is that sometimes where just on let's say a generic decision they didn't agree 35:12 with is there sometimes more information that people don't always know or what would you say that's where planning commission is a 35:18 little different. There are some things that come before the planning commission. Yeah. That are already preddecided right by 35:25 code. It's a formality to come to the planning commission because it gives an opportunity for public input. 35:30 Okay. But there are but we can't vote against them. Right. We I guess we could cuz no 35:36 one's forcing you to but it opens up the city for potential litigation 35:42 because we're limited in what we can actually because the law says you can do this and so you say no then you're against the 35:48 law right is that okay and so we had to uphold development code and sure there are things that probably go against there's always two sides 35:55 of course and yeah I think getting involved and just coming and being part of the public process I think 36:01 is huge for anybody sure get educated be a part for that. Come and listen. Yeah. Do we have an opportunity to share our 36:08 opinions at times and explain our votes? And when we have that discretion, there are things that are either legislative 36:14 or administrative. If they're administrative, there's not much you can do. If they're legislative, then the planning commission has a little more latitude, right? 36:20 And yeah, I would always weigh it out and what's good for this community. Sure. And when they bring code amendments, I'd 36:26 weigh that out. Sure. Is it word smith appropriately? Because words matter. Sure. And so that's the things I would take 36:33 all that very seriously. And you're right, it does take time. I don't know. I thought of it as, hey, I've got Why Local Service Matters 36:38 already got a life of public service. Yeah. Why not serve my community? Yeah. So, I don't know. I found value in it. I 36:45 enjoyed it. Nine years. So, anything stand out like anything you're most proud of during that nine years where it's or any 36:50 stories that come to your mind from that nine years? Oh, there are a few, but I don't know that I want to share them in a public forum here. 36:56 Hey, let's No, come on. Give us all. Let's give give the dirt, the tea, whatever. I'll just give some general things, right? Fair enough. Fair enough. Misconceptions About Planning Commissions 37:03 If you read online social media stuff, y you come away wondering really, do 37:08 people really think the planning commission is in developers pockets and they're not. Yes. I was lucky to get a bottle of water, 37:14 you know, and I did it for the because I seriously wanted to help the 37:19 community, right? And I think anybody who serves with that kind of time commitment, some use it as a stepping stone, city council, Yeah. 37:27 other elected offices. That was never my intention. Yeah. I did it because I was asked if I would be interested in serving. There Fallout from a Gas Station Hearing 37:33 was one time, and this is one's more personal to me because it was about a gas station. Okay. 37:39 And in my day job, I regulate gas stations. Sure. Yeah. I regulate their systems of storing and 37:46 dispensing fuel. I don't regulate where they're cited. Sure. That's code. That's development code. 37:51 And there was a facility that wanted to come into a particular corner close to a residential area, and that's where these 37:57 gas stations want to go. So that's the convenience store, of course. Yeah. And if they're managed well, then you 38:03 typically aren't going to get releases. But we always say, at least at work, it's not a matter of if, it's just a matter 38:09 of when, when that system might fail. But if the owner operator is good and they're keeping track of things and 38:16 doing upgrades as they should, then the risk is minimal. Limited. Yeah, it's minimal. And one of 38:23 the members of the community as they were going out the door after the and this is one where it was zoned for this. 38:29 Y the property owner has the right to develop it within the zoning law. Sure. And so our hands were tied relative to 38:36 it's not something we could stop. Sure. And so it was approved. And this one particular community member as they were 38:44 walking out yelled over their shoulder about us being baby killers. Oh Jesus. And I'm like, "Wow, I can understand 38:50 that sentiment. I really can. Yeah. But that's not what we felt we were doing. Yeah. We were upholding development code and 38:57 Yeah. And the elected officials can then make their choice to stop and turn that kind of facility in. 39:03 And and is it a risk? I don't know. As much risk as crossing the street when there's a car coming. I 39:08 don't know. Not to minimize their opinion. Yeah, of course. I respect that gentleman and I can 39:13 totally understand. But that was one that stuck out in my mind that night was rather heated and Sure. and that accusation 39:20 it probably hurt a little bit especially given your job right because you're already on that you're like no this is 39:25 what I do I actually try to help these things I can't and try to make sure this is happening and maybe going back to your education comment too obviously 39:31 that's a flippant comment that he's going to the extreme of something but I think educating people that like okay 39:37 sure there's always risk but maybe not as much as sometimes people are thinking we're trying to do things to mitigate 39:42 the risk but then there's a catastrophic failure that's unfortunate and personally I guess if I had more 39:48 regulatory authority on where things could go. Yeah, that would be different. Sure. But we don't have that. Yes. Either at 39:54 the state level or at the local level. Sure. And I totally get where that gentleman's coming from though. I understand. 40:01 Yeah. And I and sometimes I don't know that the public knows that plan commissioners, we're citizens. We live 40:07 in this community, too. Yeah. And do we have differences of opinion even as commissioners? Absolutely. 40:12 Sure. Some are more interested in seeing higher density in some places. Others would care to preserve open space. 40:20 Yeah. And that's just it. There are property owners have rights to develop property and use it within that. Now, it's not 40:27 absolute. Yeah. Some would argue they have an absolute right. I would argue against that. Sure. When you choose to live in a community 40:33 that's subject to code and state law, you have given up absolute rights to the 40:40 use of your property. Sure. I couldn't put a cemetery in my backyard. Fair enough. And so, 40:46 but if it's within code, decisions already been made. Yeah. But I totally get the perception. And 40:51 then so I don't that really bothered me that night. It sure I just noted it as okay, I get their 40:58 frustration. Yeah, I understand that. I don't know. That's how I approach public services. 41:03 I try to understand it. There was a time when the a certain large mining facility was proposed for the national priorities Mining Site Public Meeting 41:09 list. Okay. and the state since it's a non-delegated program, we didn't have a lot of input into what's called the 41:17 listing package, the data set that goes to make that proposal. Sure. 41:22 That has to be approved by OM. It's a rulemaking. When a site gets put on the national priorities list, it's a federal 41:27 rulemaking. Okay. Interesting. So, I was the project manager from the state side and we had a community 41:32 meeting to talk about the listing and of course I'm not privy to the details because it hadn't been shared with the 41:38 state. And I go to this public meeting and my counterpart is not there. My counterpart from the federal government. 41:44 Yeah. I think their flight was delayed or something. And and the community where we were at, they had an environmental 41:50 coordinator who I knew cuz we'd been working in their community doing projects. And 41:55 the listing package had named certain neighborhoods by name, like Chapel 42:01 Valley or Sure. or Lehi Ranches or whatever we have in Pilgrim's Landing. Yeah. And so the listing package name 42:08 certain communities in the west part of Salt Lake Valley by name. Of course I'd be concerned. You're stigmatizing my 42:14 neighborhood. Y by doing that instead of giving just an area description they included the 42:20 neighborhood specific. Yeah. And as soon as I walked into that meeting, I could see the environmental person for the community turned and 42:27 said, "Here's the guy with all the answers." And immediately this crowd surrounds me and they're yelling at me. 42:34 Oh, sure. And I'm like, what did I just walk into now? Yeah. And yeah, I didn't know what to do at 42:39 first. I was fairly new in my position at the state. And so I I just said, "Hey, help me understand. Hey, time out. Let me 42:46 What are your real concerns?" And and little by little, finally, someone in the crowd says, "Let him talk." 42:52 Yeah. And I said, "I tell me what your frustrations are cuz I went into this blind, right? We hadn't 42:58 seen what the EPA had prepared. We I was just there to represent the state and answer questions from the state perspective." And And so as they started 43:06 bringing forth their issues now, I can understand better. Sure. Okay. Yeah, I get that. I haven't seen 43:12 that listing package, but I agree with you. If that's what's in there, I'd be upset, too. Yeah. 43:17 And so I I hopefully was able to diffuse the situation a little bit by just being 43:23 genuinely interested in their issues and their concerns and saying, "Let's what can we do? Let's see if we can figure 43:28 out a way to to overcome this problem at the time." But first I thought I'm never 43:33 I'm not getting out here alive that I didn't really think that I just it was it was pretty intense for a few minutes. 43:40 Yeah. But there's a good principle there. It sounds like obviously you came in looking to really understand the people 43:46 and listen to them and try to solve it together kind of things, right? Yeah. I guess another way to say that is 43:51 ignorance is bliss, but I wouldn't say that. I mean fair. I wasn't sure what the issues were. I 43:56 didn't know what to expect. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not saying this again as, oh, I'm so good at my job. I'm just saying 44:02 that's what it takes. And you alluded to this earlier with the polarization that's going on. Yeah. If we It's okay to disagree. 44:08 Yeah. But we don't have to be mean about it. We don't have to be threatening. Yeah. Let's try to understand. 44:15 Yeah. And certainly do what we can, whichever your agenda is, to push your agenda in 44:20 an appropriate way. Yeah. I don't know. That's So speak to that. What did you find there on the local level with the Working Through Public Disagreement 44:26 planning commission? Obviously, I don't know if there was anybody that was ever like polar opposite of you every time. 44:32 Maybe there was, but so how did you deal with your co-workers per se for nine years as far as dealing with people that 44:38 obviously thought differently than you at some points. Recognize that it's okay to think differently. I I valued their 44:43 input. Sometimes the lens I look through may not be the only lens. Yeah. 44:48 And to hear their reasoning and I I was probably one of the quieter guys on on the planning commission. I 44:54 I don't articulate myself very well. And so I would listen more than I would speak. Yeah. Because I learned. Yeah. 45:00 If I'm speaking, I'm not learning. Yeah. Fair enough. And so I would listen and I learned so much from many of those people, those 45:06 colleagues. And it's okay if to feel like they have a different outlook. Yeah. 45:13 For the community than I do. I don't have a problem with that. Yeah. Every now and then if I felt strongly about something, I would raise why I was 45:19 thinking the way I was. Y and sometimes you get a chance to explain before you take a vote. as a 45:26 commission. Other times when maybe there's a surprise vote that came out of one of your colleagues, 45:31 there's a chance to explain your vote after the fact, whether that's to for your colleagues or for the public record. Yeah. 45:37 I can't speak to that. For me, it was usually I wanted my colleagues to know here's what I'm thinking. Sure. And if it was if the conversation that 45:44 we had or the deliberations that we had missed some key elements, then I felt like I should speak up. 45:49 Hey, what about this? Yeah. And we had a chance to ask questions of the applicants who brought things to planning commission and I try to use 45:56 that to get as much information as we could because you want the best information you can to make the best decision you can. 46:02 Yeah. So I Yeah. I don't know that I ever worried about differences. I think there were times when we'd like I notic you 46:09 voted no on that. Yeah. What's the real reason? Yeah. Or they would say that to me. Sometimes I was the lone no vote. Sometimes they 46:14 were the lone no vote. Sometimes it was three to two. And I always was curious cuz sometimes the comments and the 46:21 deliberations led me to believe they're leaning one direction. Yeah. Not that it made a difference in how I 46:27 was going to vote, but I certainly wanted to know why. Yeah. And I think there's enough respect and 46:32 collegiality in that group that people could explain that and not feel bad about it. You know, don't apologize for 46:39 a vote. Now, there were times when I thought afterwards, maybe I missed the mark. Sure. I can't think of anything specific, but 46:45 certainly you feel that way. Yeah. because you're you're not always getting it right. Yeah. Kind of thing. Sure. Yeah. And it's my perspective and that's 46:52 the beauty of this system. You've got five different commissioners with five different perspectives. 46:57 Yeah. But hopefully the same goal of what's best for the community and that might take on different nuances because of 47:03 those five perspectives. Sure. But I I don't know that there's anybody who's looking to do anything malicious. 47:09 Yeah. Just like I don't think there's really any elected employee elected officials who are trying to do anything 47:15 malicious necessarily. Sure. Anyway, that's my perspective. Speaking on the future of Lehi and different things like that, where how do Lehi’s Growth & Community Tradeoffs 47:21 you feel how do you feel Lehi's uh you know being run and and the direction it's heading? Are you happy with kind of 47:26 the way things are going as far as um you know Lehi goes in general? The standard is happiness. I don't know 47:33 that I can answer that question. We were in an area that's very desirable. Yeah. M I mean when I moved into Lehi uh 47:39 we had what 16 19,000 people 2001. Okay. So 25 years ago. 47:45 Yeah. And even then as things like Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs were 47:50 growing, it was creating difficulties on Main Street just to turn out of my community on Main Street to get to the freeway. 47:56 Yeah. And yeah, it's frustrating. I get it. That traffic pattern was horrible. Yeah. 2100 North and Pioneer Crossing 48:02 alleviated it for just a very short period of time, but that also then opened up other avenues for growth. Yes. Yeah. Made it so that they could 48:08 grow more because there's the Yeah. And that we're suffering in a larger scale, the same problem we had on a 48:13 minor scale. Yeah. I love this community, right? I love the agriculture aspect of this community. I 48:18 hope we never lose sight of that. Yeah. And those roots. Speaking of roots and branches, right? 48:24 I like that feel. Sure. And yet I know there are others that it's difficult to it's not 48:30 affordable. Yeah. That's a challenge. Yeah. Do I think government interference to 48:36 change that is the way to go? I'd rather let the market work that out. Sure. Right. Yeah. Because we're going to create additional 48:42 challenges as we impose certain government regulations on 48:47 Sure. certain. Oh, you can't build there unless it's 12 units per acre or whatever. Yeah. Does that make it affordable? No. I 48:53 think it artificially presses the price upward. Because now those are going to be just as desirable. And what's 48:58 affordable? That's different for everybody. Fair enough. Yeah. So, am I happy? I love this community. 49:04 I'm happy living here. Yeah. I don't know. I think those who are elected are doing the best they can. 49:09 Yeah. There's a kind of kind of a referendum, so to speak, the last election. 49:14 Yeah. Yep. I don't know if I buy into that totally, but it seems to be that was what was the result. And I had a great 49:21 respect for those who didn't win. Yeah. I have I have respect for those who put themselves out there and ran for 49:28 office and did win. Yeah. I I don't know many of the new council members very well, but I trust that they 49:35 have the community's interests at heart. Yeah. And I'll continue to live as a citizen and 49:40 and volunteer to help continue to make this community better. But we do have real challenges, you know. I think we 49:46 all know that. We all know what they are. Yeah, we do. And it and it comes with kind of the territory and it comes with the period of time and it comes with 49:53 bleed over from other communities nearby. Yeah. Things that we can't control but hopefully we can influence. 49:59 Yeah. So yeah, I'm not moving. I love it here. My kids have had great school 50:04 experiences. They've had great friends. We've made lifelong friends. And and I 50:09 never thought I would live in Utah. True to be honest with you. I came every summer to visit relatives 50:16 and when you come to college maybe other people have an idea. I didn't know what I wanted to be. Sure. And then fell into that as we talked 50:22 earlier and and I always figured I'd be somewhere else. But here I am and Utah's been very good 50:29 to me and my family and hopefully through what I've been able to serve in both at the state and the local level. I 50:34 hope I've in some way contributed to Utah being a good place for more than just me. Yeah. Well, you're also teaching, right? Teaching Anatomy at UVU 50:40 You teach a little bit, too. Oh, I do that. Yeah, that's what I say. You're going to bring that up. You're a busy guy, right? We don't have to talk a 50:45 lot about that, but tell me what you're doing down there. So, and how long you've been doing that for. Oh, so I I'm an adjunct faculty at Utah 50:52 Valley University in the biology department, and I've been there for it'll be 30 years this fall or 31, 51:00 fall of 1996. Okay. So, I teach human anatomy labs. Okay. To a lot of young people that want to go 51:07 into the healthcare. So, why anatomy, not geology? Good question. Yeah. There's a whole story behind that too. So I I 51:13 periodically throughout my career I've looked for opportunity to maybe change my career. Okay. I served as a project manager initially 51:19 and and at some point I'm like okay I've learned everything I can learn. Yeah. You want challenge maybe is that 51:25 kind I'm not feeling challenged dayto-day. Yeah. And then I had an opportunity to get into management. So I did that and that 51:31 started the clock all over again with new challenges, new opportunities for growth. Sure. Which I embraced. And then I got to the 51:38 point where man, do I really want to do this? Y remember when I started in college after I came back from my LDS mission, I 51:45 studied zoologology and that's right, geology. And the idea of zoologology was maybe exploring the medical field. I 51:52 have a brother who went on to become a doctor of podiatric medicine and and I thought maybe medicine is the route I 51:57 should go. So I went back to school in the mid '9s. Okay. 95. Yeah. I was single. 52:03 Okay. Hadn't met my wife yet. Yeah. And one of my hobbies was road biking and my road bike partners had 52:10 moved away. So I'm like a pelaton of one is not very fun. Sure. Yes. Yes, that is true. 52:16 So that kind of went away and I had time on my hands and I thought what should I do? Yeah. And to be honest with you, where could I 52:23 meet potential? Sure. Young women, right? Of course. Yeah. You're looking to get married still. Yeah. I was still looking for that. 52:28 Yeah. And I thought I'll go back to school. Yeah. If I were to go to BYU, it was going to cost me a fortune because I had 52:33 already done a graduate degree there and it's not going to be cheap. Yeah. Utah Valley, which I think at the time 52:40 was Utah Valley Community College. Sure. UVSC or UVCC then became UVSSC and then Okay. 52:46 UVU. Yeah. And so I took uh I took an anatomy classes. One class I always wanted to 52:51 take at BYU and never did. And took a bunch of classes that I'd never been 52:57 able to work into my schedule, but now I had a chance. Yeah. So I took anatomy and and loved it. Absolutely loved it. Saw the value 53:04 and not just in as a stepping stone towards some other educational pursuit but just as a as an organism, as a human 53:11 being. Sure. What makes us tick? Yeah. And then I volunteered to be a teaching 53:16 assistant. Okay. Which was going to help me remember it better. And and also thought, okay, if I apply 53:22 for medical schools, some volunteer hours probably goes a long way to look good. 53:27 Yeah. So that was a little altruistic. Sure. And then over the summer that first after I took the class and I volunteered 53:34 one semester and then over the summer I I stayed in touch with the lab manager lamented. I've got to hire a new lab 53:40 instructor. I said I could do it. Sure. I taught at UVU when I was in grad 53:45 school. I taught physical science there. And he says you probably could. You have 53:51 a degree. You have a master's degree. Yeah. So they hired me. They said we'll give you one class. Okay. So I taught that class and I was 53:58 blessed. I had some extremely capable students extremely well. Yeah. Despite their instructor, right? 54:05 Yeah. Sure. And so that just grew into the opportunity to just teach. Then 54:10 ultimately I met my wife and she's I don't think I want to wait around if you go to med school. I'm not really sold on taking organic 54:16 chemistry. Sure. And I had opportunities at work that changed my outlook a little bit. 54:22 Yeah. But then I just continued to teach and because I enjoy teaching. I love when the light goes on for somebody. 54:28 Yeah. And that aha moment. Yeah. Doesn't happen all the time, but that's rewarding. Sure. 54:33 If I can be a guide to that. Yeah. And see that in someone's life, like I 54:38 get it now. Yeah. Okay. Good. Now go teach somebody else. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So that's how I got into it and I've 54:45 just stayed. I don't know. Change is hard. So if I leave, that's just something I got to manage in my own 54:50 life. And why leave? Sure. But 20 plus years then 30 years. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting to the point where 54:57 it's that's a long time. And that's a long time. Yeah, it is. It's like a second career. 55:02 Yeah, it really is actually when you think about it cuz you've been doing it for a long time. Obviously, maybe not the amount of hours, but you're still 55:08 But and I love that it's something totally different. I think uh that challenge of something new because a lot of times, especially the midlife crisis 55:14 sometimes happens for people where it's okay, what am I doing? And but I think it's just a lot of times we just want a challenge or we just want to keep 55:20 progressing. And I think sometimes we master whatever. I I I know personally, I guess, with my own job, but it's okay. 55:25 I'm kind really good at this. I'm good. I don't necessarily want to pivot out of it cuz I have a business growing here, but I wouldn't mind taking on new things 55:31 or doing Sure. because I want to challenge again. Absolutely. Cuz without a challenge, it's just sure you make money, but there's more than 55:37 life than money. It gets a little static. It gets a little static. Yeah. So, yeah. I don't know. I said I could do it and 55:43 they said, "Okay, we'll give you one class." And then here I am 30 years later and still doing the same class. 55:48 Yeah. And there it es and flows. There's some semesters where I'm like, I just can't do this anymore. Sure, the student Student Motivation & Learning Mindsets 55:54 approach is very different now than it was 30 years ago. And I don't know, I had colleagues at UVU that have said, 56:00 "Oh, it's tied to the public school system." I don't know if that's necessarily true. It just might be a generational thing. Sure. 56:05 I don't know. It's just sometimes harder. But this last semester that we just completed, I had three great 56:12 classes of kids that it's like having a first child and that's the perfect baby. Sure. And then you're tricked into 56:17 having another one, right? I feel like because I said that this was going to be my last semester. Yeah. 56:23 And now I'm like, I really enjoyed this. Yeah, it was a good semester. Okay. And I haven't had one of those in a few 56:28 semesters. And so I told the lab manager, I said, "Now don't make a decision yet. Check with me in the summer. My my mind might 56:35 change, but I'm taking it one semester at a time." Okay. And so I'm like, if I could come 56:40 back and have another experience like this semester, yeah, I could keep doing this indefinitely. 56:45 But that doesn't always happen. Sure. That's good because you say students have changed over 30 years. Some things in a positive way, some 56:52 things in a negative way kind of thing. There's still some that are just great students. They're dedicated. They 56:58 sacrifice time and effort. Really want to learn. There are many that are just like, "Tell me what I need to know to just get an 57:05 A." Sure. There's a textbook. Yeah. And the human body, it's pretty complex. 57:11 You don't have to know everything perfectly, but you need to put in some effort. Yeah. And it's just frustrating to see kids 57:16 that just aren't willing to try and and I don't know, they challenge you in a different way. 57:22 Sure. Not intellectually, but more just in an entitled way. Sure. I don't need that. 57:27 Yeah. Yeah. The entitled part. It's hard. I think that's one of the things as a teacher is you obviously you enjoy 57:33 getting that light turned on in people where they're learning things. And so if somebody's ambivalent and doesn't care, 57:39 then that doesn't really it's not something you want to do. I guess it's harder. But but when you go to work there and 57:45 they're interested and they're eager, I get it. It's hard. It's a challenging course. But then that moment when it clicks 57:52 Yep. or they come to you and say, "What can I do differently?" Like, "Tell me what you've been doing." Sure. cuz I don't 57:58 all the other hours other than the two I have you every Friday in class. Yeah. And I had a student that was not doing 58:04 very well. Yeah. This was many years ago. And they came to me and said, "What can I do differently?" And I said, "Tell me what 58:09 you're doing." So they explained and I said, "Okay." But really, it had focused around an interpersonal relationship that was 58:15 happening outside of class. On again, off again, significant other kind of a thing. Sure. 58:20 And they they assured me that that's over. We're broke up. It's not going to happen. Like are you sure? because if 58:26 that's what you're identifying, I think you're probably more savvy to what's going on than I am. Yeah. And they said, "No." Yeah, that's So I 58:32 said, "Let me tell you what I've noticed. I've noticed in class that you hang back. You're studying with a group 58:37 of students that aren't really studying very hard." Yeah. If you're serious about making changes, you need to find additional members of a 58:44 study group. Go find and and this person said, "You think they'd let me?" And I said, "You need to assure them that you're going to be a contributor." 58:50 Sure. And not just sit back and let them do all the work and you glean from that. Yeah. And so I watched this individual. 58:57 I watched them that day they went to another group of students studying and asked if they could participate. And the 59:02 beautiful thing is here people are always accepting. Yeah. Join us. Yeah. And I watched them become slowly more 59:08 engaged in their own learning process and contributing to the learning of others that this person turned around 59:15 what was going to be probably a failing grade. Yeah. To a highly successful grade at the end of the semester. And they did it in a 59:21 short period of time. That's awesome. So it doesn't take a lot, but once the desire is there and once they get a little bit of guidance 59:27 and the commitment from within, okay, I'm going to take what I was told and implement that. 59:33 Yeah, that was very gratifying that and and I'll never I'll never forget that person. I probably can't remember their 59:39 name right now, but I'll never forget that experience cuz they came, they genuinely wanted to know. I asked them some questions. They 59:46 responded, sure, are we there yet? And then wow, watch them implement that and then see what 59:51 their final exam score was. That's the gratifying part of teaching. Yeah. Yeah. It actually you got to see 59:57 them go from Yeah. I love that. I love that story. So, speaking of youth and different things, obviously you're a father, too, right? Tell me what like Staying Busy Through Service 1:00:04 obviously you you have a big role in a lot of different things, right? You're you're very focused on helping the 1:00:09 state, the city, youth at the thing. I think your time says something about what you value, which is really trying 1:00:15 to improve the world around you. Why? Why do you do that? And what kind of world are you trying to make for your 1:00:21 kids thing here? I don't know that I'm serally thought about that, Ryan. That's putting a lot of pressure on me. I think I have found 1:00:28 value in what I've been doing. I don't know that my intentions always have been that. Sure. 1:00:34 As you mentioned earlier, my bread and butter. I have to support some, you know, you have to make had to get a job. 1:00:39 I mean, I didn't grow up independently wealthy. Most of us don't. Yeah. I feel like I grew up poor. 1:00:45 Sure. stable but poor. Yeah. Yeah. And the one job then initially it was okay, I've got to provide for myself. 1:00:52 Yeah. And then ultimately hopefully a family. I look at that UVU gig as a hobby job. 1:00:57 Not really a hobby necessarily, but people ask me, hey, what are your hobbies? I'm like, I teach on Fridays, 1:01:03 you know. Yeah. And that I think has added value to my life more so than I'm me adding value to 1:01:09 someone else's life. Yeah. However, if I see that I've added value, that that's rewarding. But I think 1:01:14 initially I took that on because one I wanted to learn anatomy even better and 1:01:19 you learn things better when you teach it. Yeah. And then I it just became I actually 1:01:24 enjoy this. Yeah. I joke around my dad was a high school teacher so maybe it's genetic. I don't know. Sure. 1:01:30 By the time he reached the end of his career he was ready to be done. Sure. I understand that now. You know. Yeah. You've been doing it for 30 years. 1:01:35 Yeah. And then the planning commission thing which just fell into my lap. I never had envisioned anything like that. That just 1:01:42 became extremely rewarding on a community level. Sure. Say, "Hey, I had a hand in maybe making 1:01:49 this better." And yeah, every now and then I'm reminded of, "Yeah, that was probably a mistake we made." Sure. Not that there are many of those. I 1:01:55 don't think there are. Yeah. Because there's so many checks and balances, right? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know that my whole 1:02:00 life is as altruistic as that. Sure. But certainly I can look back and I get amazed with wonder that I've been 1:02:07 blessed with opportunities. Yeah. Not for anything that I sought out. just things that came my way and hopefully 1:02:13 I've embraced those and produced something that's beyond myself. Yeah. 1:02:18 But I can't say that in the moment I was always thinking that it's produced something beyond myself. Sometimes it was very selfish. I think I want to 1:02:25 teach this class. Sure. Oh yeah, I'm be planning commissioner. I don't even know what that is, but hey, they're calling me commissioner. 1:02:31 I like that. Sounds great. Sounds great. I still get taken aback even when someone calls me Mr. Everett. I'm like, 1:02:36 that's my dad. I'm 65. And I'm like I still think that's my father. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if that answered 1:02:42 the premise of your question or not, but it does. It and I think you're getting to a I think a lot of times life takes 1:02:49 us in certain directions. Obviously, I believe in God and different thing where I think he's maybe guiding you in some 1:02:55 ways. And so maybe you're saying, "Hey, I'm not as altruistic as you're making me sound." Maybe, but maybe or maybe 1:03:01 not. But maybe I think in the sense that like maybe your heart you're God's saying, "Hey, Brent, I I know what you 1:03:07 like to do. I know what you enjoy and I'm going to take that and make more of your life, I guess, than maybe you thought. 1:03:12 I hope that's what has happened. Sometimes I think I'm running from something and why do I try to stay busy? 1:03:18 Maybe I'm trying to avoid some other things that I don't want to do. Cut the grass and fix the sprinkler heads, things like 1:03:23 that. I love that thought. And I think there's some truth to that, right? I I firmly 1:03:28 believe that each of us living our lives are like a thread in a tapestry and we 1:03:33 get interwoven by the things we choose to do and also by a guiding hand somewhere else and our lives interact 1:03:40 and at the end of the day at the end of life yeah we've been a contribution one thread 1:03:45 what hopefully is a beautiful tapestry that stands as a legacy and I firmly believe that you know I don't believe 1:03:51 that chance encounters are coincidence y I think there there's a bigger I may not 1:03:57 understand it in that moment. Yeah. But I think there's a bigger guiding force clearly. 1:04:02 Yeah. And that I just need to be open and ready to respond to those opportunities, 1:04:08 impressions, whatever they might be. Yeah. But I'm not very good at that. Sure. Sure. No, we don't always Yeah. 1:04:13 No, but but again, I just look if I look at your life and look, you've done a lot of good. And sure, maybe some of it was 1:04:18 running from But who knows? And actually, it doesn't matter. I from what I can see, God takes people's lives and 1:04:24 and well, okay, sure, you maybe this is part of it, but I know your heart and I know what you want and so I'm going to make your life what would be better for 1:04:31 it. So, I don't know. I see a lot of good in what you've done and some of the things that maybe have started off as a quote unquote hobby job, but 30 years 1:04:38 later, obviously, you've affected a lot of kids. You've done a lot there. So, yeah. For good or for worse, my guess is you bring up something that 1:04:44 when I was a student at BYU, I ran into a fellow from my ward, my BYU 1:04:50 ward. Yeah. And he was actually the elders cornorn president. Okay. And made a career as a student to fly 1:04:56 under the radar. Right. Sure. Yeah. I don't want to be elders president. I didn't aspire to any of that. Yeah. 1:05:01 And I didn't even really want to talk to him cuz now he's going to know who I am. Right. But he said something very interesting 1:05:06 to me because I didn't know him. He didn't know me. And so I asked him what he was studying. He said, "Oh, I'm preysical therapy." Again, there's 1:05:13 another one of those things like I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah. I had never been to a physical therapist. I had no idea. 1:05:19 Yeah. And I said, 'What made you decide to go into that? Yeah. And he said, 'Ive had some experiences 1:05:24 where I needed to use a physical therapist. He says, 'And then I prayed about what I should become.' I'm like, 1:05:30 holy crap, I have never even done that. Right. Sure. Do I have faith in God? Yes, I do. But 1:05:36 did I ever think that I should ask? Sure. The divine, what should I do with my life? 1:05:41 Yeah. Never crossed my mind. And I'm sorry to say that I probably haven't asked a lot since then. 1:05:46 Sure. But you bring up a good point and maybe that is what has happened. I don't 1:05:51 know. May maybe it's to help me to grow and become what God envisions me to become. Maybe it's for me to have touch 1:05:58 points as a thread in a tapestry to help others. Maybe it's for someone to say, I don't want to be like him. Hey, here's an 1:06:04 example. Yeah, I don't want to be like that guy. Sure. I doubt that, but yeah, sure. I don't know. Don't. But anyway, that 1:06:11 that comes to mind when you brought that up is I had no idea that I could ask for that divine guidance. 1:06:16 Sure. And like I say, I probably haven't even since then very much, but just try to be the best. I had great 1:06:24 parents that instilled in me, be a good person, be a good citizen, be a good disciple, be a good brother, 1:06:30 and I can say I failed at this, I failed at that, I failed at this and failed at that. But the lesson is still underlying that 1:06:36 I'm still trying. Yes. Right. Yeah. So for good, bad, or in different. 1:06:42 Yeah. That's what you got in the chair today. Yeah. Yeah. And you're continuing to serve and continuing to I know you do a 1:06:48 lot. You've served in different student wards and stuff like that too, right? I have had that opportunity and that's and I'm guessing affected a 1:06:55 lot of lives for the positive there too. I don't know. I'd like to think so, but you never know. I've gotten a few letters that say just the opposite. So 1:07:02 Sure. Sure. And it racks my brain. What did I say? What did I do that they feel that strongly? and yeah, they felt like they 1:07:08 needed to send me a letter. Sure. But the intent is to try to do good and try to follow God's hand and but 1:07:16 certainly I can say those experiences have made me better. Y so all is not lost and if in that 1:07:21 process someone else feels differently then I that breaks my heart. Yeah. That was never the intention. 1:07:27 But anyway, yeah, that's just me. Sure. Hey, you're doing great. You're doing great. There's been a good 1:07:33 conversation. Is there anything We've covered a lot. Is there anything that we didn't cover or any remaining stories or 1:07:39 thoughts that you have as we conclude in here and stuff? Oh, I don't know. No, you didn't ask my favorite ice cream. 1:07:44 What is your favorite ice cream? Yes, fair enough. I like that. No, it's probably right now there's two. 1:07:51 There's chocolate moose tracks from WCO. Yep. Okay. And then the Amqua chocolate peanut butter. So, anything with chocolate, 1:07:56 anything with nuts. Yeah. Cuz I'm nuts and so I like it. Not a huge fruity flavor kind of guy. 1:08:01 Yeah. Strawberry, peach, that someone else can enjoy that. Yeah. But yeah, then that's all I'm just a 1:08:07 regular Joe. Earnestly chocolate from you that we just tried that. They have a It's like marshmallow caramel and some peanut 1:08:14 butter cups in there. It's pretty good, too. Oh, yeah. That was named after Erns Wilkinson, wasn't it? Earnestly Ch. I don't know. They have 1:08:20 another one like the Shane the BYU president ice cream one. This one's one I don't know if it's named after 1:08:26 somebody, but it's good. You mentioned the I have been close to greatness, but never really risen to Ordinary People Making Big Impacts 1:08:32 greatness. Sure. So Shane Reese, the president of BYU, I was a counselor in a bishop Rick, an award that he was in as a student. 1:08:39 Oh wow. He and his wife to be were engaged at the time. So I don't know him well, but 1:08:45 great young man and I look at where he's at. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then the University of Utah. 1:08:51 Yeah. He was one of my professors when I did an MBA program at Taylor Randall I knew. 1:08:57 So I'm like, man, I know presidents of major universities. Yeah. Henry Iron was president of BYU Idaho. 1:09:02 Yep. He was a classmate of mine at BYU. Like, yeah, I came so close. Hey, you got to rub 1:09:08 shoulders with some really good people. And they got to rub shoulders with some really good people, too. You bring up a good point. Most of us are very 1:09:14 ordinary, and most of us don't ever rise to to a title that says the world says you're important, but I think what 1:09:20 you're showing is a lifetime of service, Brent, where you've done and I and 1:09:25 service is broad, right? Sometimes we work and we make money for service, but you're doing a good profession. You're doing good things. And sure, on some of 1:09:31 these you're making money, but but you're doing a lot of good in the world. And I think that that's kind of part of the reason I like doing this podcast is 1:09:38 because most of us are ordinary people and we're never going to rise to the ranks of that that great title that 1:09:44 you're talking about. But these are people that you that rub shoulders with and probably they felt you were their equal, too. Do you know what I mean? I 1:09:50 don't know. I just I don't know. It my point is we're all doing a lot of good and and but most of us aren't known 1:09:56 beyond our own little circle of influence. And I'm okay with that. Right. I think most of us are actually none of us need 1:10:02 you. My daughters played lacrosse and they said with defense they were mostly on defense and the only time defense 1:10:08 even gets noticed is when they're not doing a good job when they get scored on and stuff. Offense gets noticed all the time. They're scoring, they're doing the 1:10:14 stuff, but defense it's only if they don't do their job sometimes. And so I think a lot of us are in that defense 1:10:19 position where we're like we just do our job and nobody notices. When you're doing your job, nobody notices you really cuz things are just that's how 1:10:26 it's supposed to be. And and I think that's okay. Again, most of us are in that position where we're 1:10:31 just doing our job and trying to make the world better. But yeah, we won't be known outside of our little circle. 1:10:38 Yeah, I'm an introvert and so I'm good with being Mr. Inconspicuous, right? As long as I can maintain what's valuable 1:10:45 to me, which is try to be my best to be a good person. And y and I fail at that, right? I'm sure there's many people who are like, "That 1:10:52 guy is an idiot." And he said an an unkind word at one time and you only heard it the one time. You 1:10:58 count yourself lucky. There's been a lot said, but yeah, I'm that's why when you asked me to come on here, I'm like, I'm 1:11:04 nobody. Sure. Yeah. I'm a guy that's doing his job. I really don't have anything extraordinary to 1:11:10 share or whatever. But if it gives hope to the other ordinary Joe's out there that you can be ordinary and live a good 1:11:17 life, then maybe that's a good thing. Yep. And I guess living a good life, that's for someone else's judgment. That's sure 1:11:24 not my judgment. Maybe my kids at my wake will probably have some terrible stories to tell. I don't know. 1:11:29 They might have mostly good stories though, I'm guessing. So, we're all doing our best. So, anyhow, Brent, thank Closing Thoughts & Sponsors 1:11:34 you. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for talking to me and appreciate you and appreciate all you've done for the state and for the city and for your family and 1:11:41 and for lots of youth. I again, I think if you measure by effect, I think 1:11:46 there's a lot of people that could say thank you and some that maybe write you a letter that says not thank you. When you're in the ring, you're doing your 1:11:52 best. And so, it is what it is. But anyhow, thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for the time. 1:11:57 Thank you for joining us on Roots and Branches of Lehi. I hope today's story helped you feel a little more connected to the people who make up our community. 1:12:04 Remember, every person here has a unique story and together, we're what makes Lehi feel like home. If you know someone 1:12:10 who would be a great fit for this podcast, please fill out the form in the show notes so we can reach out and schedule an interview. We'd love to hear 1:12:17 from you. A big thank you to our sponsors, the Workheart Home Mortgage team and Play Harding Nightly Vacation Rentals for supporting this show and 1:12:24 helping us bring our community closer together. Until next time, keep growing those roots and reaching out to your 1:12:30
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