Moving Markets: Navigating Brokerage Transitions in Real Estate Slowdowns with Boo Maddox

0:11 11 seconds welcome everybody to the Work Hard Play Hard podcast uh I'm your host Ryan Hardin and today I got boo Maddox with me what's up and I'm doing well how you 0:19 19 seconds doing good it's been a minute it has been a minute uh boo is one of our he was like our number three or number four episode I think that quick yeah I didn't 0:26 26 seconds know that good for you guys yeah that's exciting how many do you go to now we didn't tell you then cuz we wanted you to come on no I was happy to be there how many are you guys up to now we're up 0:34 34 seconds to like 39 I think congratulations something like that incredible yeah so it's going well it's been good so uh good way to 0:42 42 seconds get content out uh you know help agents uh you know local stuff right kind of know what we're doing and stuff so good 0:49 49 seconds for you guys but anyhow Boo's uh um been well you've been you've had some changes yourself yeah recently so tell us I mean 0:57 57 seconds obviously last time we spoke you were at EDG homes you gave us a good forecast on kind of what they were doing and stuff like that things have changed for you 1:04 1 minute, 4 seconds yeah tell tell us about that change what's going on yeah so in July of this year I made the decision to walk away from Edge which was a weird one that was 1:13 1 minute, 13 seconds one that like I never thought I would do that because your dad's a influential part of that company uh yeah I mean he's still there the dayto day he still runs 1:21 1 minute, 21 seconds everything he and I mean for me since I was a child like one of the earliest memories I have of being around new construction with him was like seeing 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds some of the sales agents right which it's big inspiration to what I'm doing now right but I would see sales agents and I'm like that's the job like that's 1:36 1 minute, 36 seconds the job that I want to so I live my entire life change my entire personal I'm just kidding but like I made selling new construction my life yeah and so 1:45 1 minute, 45 seconds like when all of a sudden it's like okay I'm 29 30 years old at this point yep I I did what I was trying to come and do 1:52 1 minute, 52 seconds now what yeah yeah what what you know and so what are you doing now so um I quit without knowing exactly what I was going to go do okay um 2:00 2 minutes for me it was super important because I cared about Edge I didn't want to go to my dad and be like hey man I'm out and have something already lined up because it kind of felt like it was cheating 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds almost I would say sure so I quit and I had truly no idea what I was going to go and do I thought I would get out of real estate maybe I interviewed with some different companies in some different 2:16 2 minutes, 16 seconds Industries and I at after 60 days or so it just was like okay real estate is where I was always supposed to be it's where I think I'll die like this is this 2:25 2 minutes, 25 seconds is what I like this is this is part of who I am right sure um so then it became okay what brokerage what team do I want to join do I want to go solo how do I 2:34 2 minutes, 34 seconds want to approach it and um I had a unique opportunity I would say when I was at Edge to go and be in probably more sales meetings and team meetings 2:43 2 minutes, 43 seconds than the majority of people will ever have the opportunity to go to from different brokerages different teams Utah Salt Lake County met with some 2:51 2 minutes, 51 seconds incredible people and watched some incredible leaders sure right um so when I started to think like okay who do I want to partner with I kept 2:59 2 minutes, 59 seconds coming back to Michael Perry okay who was a dear friend and so to me I called him I said hey I I want to come and hang my license I have some ideas about 3:07 3 minutes, 7 seconds trying to go get new construction business trying to do some stuff in production y um so joined the team and about 30 45 days in him and I looked at each other one day we're like Utah 3:16 3 minutes, 16 seconds County would be a pretty cool place for a new Parry group office yeah so that was September is okay here we are 3:25 3 minutes, 25 seconds January 25th yep and we are up and running so new office in Pleasant Grove 3:31 3 minutes, 31 seconds um and a lot going on okay and so so so just barely I mean like this year you started it up right yeah I mean December 3:39 3 minutes, 39 seconds 8th was our first day in office I think okay so and how does it how does it different from you know the is and or is there any difference I guess between the 3:47 3 minutes, 47 seconds Salt Lake Branch versus you know the Utah County Branch I guess um as far as structure and stuff like that you know it's fascinating cuz I had a couple of 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds things that I was like okay if I'm going to do this that there's certain things that I believe in that lead to agent selling at a high level yeah um and so I 4:02 4 minutes, 2 seconds said okay I I'm going to want a little bit of creative Direction with this sure and Michael his dad Jack Johnny his 4:10 4 minutes, 10 seconds brother have been incredible and letting me just kind of design it as I want to within the parameters that they've given with some of the same principles some of 4:17 4 minutes, 17 seconds the same models that have led to 16 agents this year being in the top 500 right yeah like we know how to sell houses we know how to go and get new 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds agents into production yeah so we're going to keep those same principles that are tried and true but I'm gonna put my little spin to it I think I was just gonna say okay yeah 4:33 4 minutes, 33 seconds your little spin so then and and I mean do you want to get into your spin what what oh yeah I would say it's still developing okay um it's definitely not 4:42 4 minutes, 42 seconds anything that's fine-tuned at this point right it's um it's been interesting trying to approach something because I've never 4:49 4 minutes, 49 seconds been a team lead type y person y right my entire life revolved around transacting at a high level right I I 4:57 4 minutes, 57 seconds did the math I averaged 91 transactions year for my six years at Edge every single year wow and so I am not 5:05 5 minutes, 5 seconds approaching starting and running an office as somebody that's an established experienced team leader I'm doing it from the point of a producer that 5:13 5 minutes, 13 seconds somebody has so that has sold a lot of houses has negotiated a ton of them has spent a ton of time in the market is coming up on 10 years in the industry 5:22 5 minutes, 22 seconds yeah um that is all revolved around production and I think that looks a little bit different than if you're approaching it and saying this is what 5:30 5 minutes, 30 seconds we were doing 10 or 15 or 20 years ago in production sure and so um obviously you're having 5:37 5 minutes, 37 seconds success recruiting people right I mean you know getting them over there and stuff like that yeah we set a goal for a total agent count by the end of 2024 5:45 5 minutes, 45 seconds um we are the goal is to be halfway there obviously by the end of June and we're hitting that at the end of this month so wow um well it's a weird time 5:54 5 minutes, 54 seconds in the market it's a weird time I think where people are feeling a little bit maybe disenfranchised I mean you talk to a lot of Agents what do you think they're feeling with their current 6:02 6 minutes, 2 seconds brokerages well that's exactly it they I mean because things are so low right now you know it's that's the time when people are kind of like hey is this 6:09 6 minutes, 9 seconds where I should be right I mean you know I mean that happened to me a year ago that's why I say I broke off myself right because it's like well I think that's what a changing Market does though right it totally does because 6:17 6 minutes, 17 seconds when things are busy you don't have time to you're just you're just you know raking in the hay right you know you're just you're justy jump in it you don't know what you're doing you you just say 6:26 6 minutes, 26 seconds okay this is the way things are done y y and then you get to a certain point and I think if that's the market changing then it's definitely a catalyst to okay 6:33 6 minutes, 33 seconds why am I where I'm at currently and what value are they creating for me y yeah well so um that's great you're having so 6:40 6 minutes, 40 seconds much success right now um and you know obviously the per groups are very well respected we've had you know him on the podcast you know and uh really liked him 6:50 6 minutes, 50 seconds he's a good guy so but um is has it been are you are you finding the what would I say um you know you want to like what 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds you do and obviously you already like what you do but is this been a good challenge for you as far as you know just for personal growth sake I guess and stuff like that yeah um that's a 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds fascinating question because I would say that's also the answer to ultimately why I quit Edge okay like for me I looked down and it felt good right like it felt 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds like my business was finally running sure at a really great clip the time that I had spent invested in it was now paying out to the point where I had to 7:24 7 minutes, 24 seconds work maybe 20 to 25 hours a week to manage my pipeline I spent the rest of it with my kids I went on my more vacations I spent more time with them 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds um and I realized that um when it came to production I didn't 7:41 7 minutes, 41 seconds want to be in the same spot in five years okay and so ultimately that was like okay I do need something different to challenge me I want to add some different skills to my bag like you ask 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds what's different I don't know yet I'm hoping in two more years when I come on I can say this is what we do really really well differently 7:57 7 minutes, 57 seconds um those are that's why I left those to go try to figure that out for myself and see if this is something that I can do 8:04 8 minutes, 4 seconds like I think I can which props to you because a lot of times I would call it golden handcuffs that kind of keep you in different spots 8:12 8 minutes, 12 seconds right and and on the one hand if our main job in life is just to make money well you were doing it you were doing fine but but there comes a point where 8:21 8 minutes, 21 seconds you're like I want some kind of challenge I want to be challenged here I want to grow personally even if it's you know maybe taking a pay cut initially 8:29 8 minutes, 29 seconds with long long term growth and stuff like that and I don't know we don't need to get into that but my point is that you want to you want that challenge I think and it sounds like you're getting 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds that for me challenge was part of it as dumb as this is to say though like fun is a massive portion of this for me okay good and it's it was a weird moment cuz 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds I would say my favorite part of ever selling Edge homes was when people would sign a contract right like to me that was always I think for most people yeah that's like the most exciting time in 8:54 8 minutes, 54 seconds real estate that's when the fun is happening I would say sure my wife recently got her license or a few months before I left Edge and she brought a 9:02 9 minutes, 2 seconds transaction where she was representing the buyer I was representing the seller the family stood to make more on one paycheck than we had ever made as a 9:09 9 minutes, 9 seconds group as a little family and she looked at me she goes I don't feel like you even care that that just happened and I'm like that's a weird place to be yeah 9:19 9 minutes, 19 seconds and so I I would say it's like the challenge but it's also like this is supposed to be fun sure I think real estate is supposed to be fun 9:26 9 minutes, 26 seconds and I think that gets lost in it sometimes because you are swimming an uphill battle I think a lot of the time when you're trying to 9:33 9 minutes, 33 seconds produce and so I don't for me it's like this is something that I think is genuinely going to be fun and I think the people on our on our team so far 9:41 9 minutes, 41 seconds have been feeling that as we've approached trainings as we've approached how are we going to try to sell more houses in Utah County gotcha okay well 9:50 9 minutes, 50 seconds so let's talk about that then let's go into the market a little bit obviously this last year was you know a tough year right um you know just numbers wise less 9:58 9 minutes, 58 seconds volume than the most right yeah what you know how did that year go for you what things did you learn from that year you know um 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds obviously you you made some changes and stuff like that too so putting that aside I guess just from a market perspective what would you say 10:14 10 minutes, 14 seconds you learned from last year um so I say on like a production level it was my production was down but it's also hard to 10:22 10 minutes, 22 seconds gauge if that's cuz I kind of knew I was leaving if I because I was definitely spending more time with my family I was kind of on my way out I would say 10:31 10 minutes, 31 seconds mentally yeah um so production is like how do you live with slowing down a little bit because I think that that's part of what a lot of us felt in 2023 10:39 10 minutes, 39 seconds and like to at some point we're all going to have to be okay with how we spent our time and start looking forward but I would say once Michael and I started having the conversation at the 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds end of 2023 my mindset towards the market shifted from okay now what do I tell agents when I'm sitting across the table from them and I would say it has 10:54 10 minutes, 54 seconds shifted to something that is excited about the forecast because I think we part of the urgency that we felt when we 11:01 11 minutes, 1 second were starting this office was that we have about 12 to 18 months to kind of get this right but before the market 11:09 11 minutes, 9 seconds very realistically could start to look something like it did in 2020 yeah so for us it was okay we don't want to wait 6 months we don't want to wait 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds three months we want to get this started now because to us like I said I think you have 12 to 18 months of grinding of it feeling very similar to 2023 with 11:24 11 minutes, 24 seconds some spikes in the middle of of inventory being taken off the market like I think it's going to feel very similar but it's going to be a little 11:32 11 minutes, 32 seconds bit more optimistic maybe okay okay so as far as forecast goes then 12 to 18 months you're thinking hey you know 11:40 11 minutes, 40 seconds should be a better market then I guess as far as volume goes and stuff um if interest rates go down like they are predicted to 11:48 11 minutes, 48 seconds yeah it stands to reason that inventory will be taken off the market yeah it'll be interesting to see what plays into it in 2025 cuz the reality is you're not 11:57 11 minutes, 57 seconds seeing Builders building as as many houses right now yeah right now if you look at it in Utah and Salt Lake County new construction accounts for about 40% 12:05 12 minutes, 5 seconds of the active listings yeah so what happens if all of a sudden Builders and if you start to see builders are starting to sell off their quick move in inventory the next step of that is 12:14 12 minutes, 14 seconds you're going to see those incentives go away right Edge homes right family business I'm paying attention to what they're doing course they're running a 12:21 12 minutes, 21 seconds 3% incentive how do they increase prices 3% without increasing prices 3% the incentives just start to go away and I 12:28 12 minutes, 28 seconds think that's kind of one of the first signs that you're going to see that okay prices are on the verge of going up the conversation to be had is are is increas 12:37 12 minutes, 37 seconds or decreasing interest rates going to have more sellers in a position where they can sell yeah so I do think that you're going to see weird influxes of inventory at times and I think that's 12:45 12 minutes, 45 seconds what's going to make it feel sporadic for 2024 but I think I don't want to say inventory will 12:53 12 minutes, 53 seconds be where it was in 2020 but I think it's going to be lower than what a lot of people are comfortable with sure which we're hoping 13:02 13 minutes, 2 seconds that you know obviously fici rates do come down because you got a lot of people that have bought their house in 2020 it's four years later now right and 13:09 13 minutes, 9 seconds they've had a couple kids and now of the sudden that house is starting to feel a little cramped but they don't want to move because they got a 2% 3% rate right yeah and so you know if rates can come 13:17 13 minutes, 17 seconds come down into the fours maybe now of a sudden it's like okay it's not so bad to buy right and mean sure we're losing our two three% rate but and so you know 13:26 13 minutes, 26 seconds hopefully there'll be more inventory but yeah still still a shortage for the amount of buyers that maybe we have yeah well and so that's why I'm kind of calling my shot with it right like I 13:34 13 minutes, 34 seconds wanted on film when I tell everybody when you when you see the incentives start to go away from Builders yeah that's when you'll know that price 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds increases are going to follow shortly okay just because that is the quickest way that they can add to the bottom line and still advertise the low prices that 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds they have right now sure like that is going to be one of the first things that everyone's going to be like okay now what's happening and I don't know exactly what happens after that I don't 13:57 13 minutes, 57 seconds know if like we said more are able to actually sell and it makes sense for them I don't know if it's you'll just have more buyers reenter the market because interest rates go up a 14:06 14 minutes, 6 seconds combination of both I think sure no that's good advice you're you're you're on camera so we you know we uh you know we got that on there so um going back to 14:15 14 minutes, 15 seconds the Perry group and stuff like that how important is like support staff and and you know not just you know what what kind of tools does the Perry group have 14:22 14 minutes, 22 seconds that helps you know if somebody was going to go to their you know be a realtor there and stuff like that what what kind of support staff do they have or what you know or how important is 14:30 14 minutes, 30 seconds that I mean is that you know um you know important for new Realtors coming on and stuff like that no it's a it's a good question I think it's something everyone 14:37 14 minutes, 37 seconds should ask themselves I think I'm probably a terrible person to ask though because I am very pro team okay like at the end of it I I look at the amount of 14:45 14 minutes, 45 seconds units I was able to sell the amount of dollars that I was able to actually take home to my family y a and there wasn't a ton of real estate agents that were out 14:53 14 minutes, 53 seconds producing what I was doing from a team environment and I think that that success was mostly because I I had 15:00 15 minutes better systems in place okay without me understanding that everything was being taken care of like Edge has it dialed in sure there is no way that I could have 15:09 15 minutes, 9 seconds sold the amount of houses I did without having the support that EDG hommes gave me from a company and a team perspective and I will die on that Hill because like 15:16 15 minutes, 16 seconds I yes skill Talent whatever has to go into it but if you don't have the systems you either have to put them in place yourself or you have to align with 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds somebody that has them in place and so part of why I joined group was because to me it was the closest that I could 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds find to what Edge had set up and I think ultimately what Edge allowed me to do was to focus on selling real estate and everything after that for the most part 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds was somewhat taken care of sure focus on what you're good at yeah I I was able to spend more of my time in my sweet spot 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds right I could spend more time marketing I could spend more time in in actual conversations with people about buying real estate and I wasn't having 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds to chase down pay stubs or deposit or whatever because we had people in place to help make that transaction run smooth 16:04 16 minutes, 4 seconds and so for me when I saw what the Perry group was right like I said I got very my role at Edge was interesting because I got to see how so many 16:12 16 minutes, 12 seconds different teams ran and so knowing that Michael and his brother had spent so much time building a system where agents 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds could focus on selling I was I was like this is a great opportunity I think Zillow is a big portion of that as well 16:28 16 minutes, 28 seconds so we have the systems in place but then we also have the lead generation in place once once again Edge was incredible at this I think they do one of the better lead gen for from a 16:37 16 minutes, 37 seconds builder's perspective and so having Zillow to help cover new agents that might not have the 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds transactions um that they want to being able to put them instantly on leads that allows them to be working with warm 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds buyers within a few weeks of joining the team is huge sure number one it leads to transactions sooner but number two it also gives us more to be able to train 17:00 17 minutes on right our motto in our office right now I would say is our goal is to get really really good really really quickly sure if you are a new real estate agent 17:08 17 minutes, 8 seconds or an agent that's not producing at a high level you're losing before you even get to the transaction because you're not getting the same amount of at bats that somebody that's really good is 17:16 17 minutes, 16 seconds getting yeah and so yes the conversion that we get from Zillow is great but also the percentage that we don't convert are equally as important to the 17:24 17 minutes, 24 seconds business because our goal is about 8 to 12 of these connections every single month month for every person on our team 17:31 17 minutes, 31 seconds yeah that's a 100 at least conversations a year that you're going to be having with an active client what happens then 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds when your sphere of influence starts to call you three and six and nine months into this you are going to be so sharp and dialed in because you are actively 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds in the market you're actively showing homes you know what's going on in the market you'll be able to sell and help your friends even better so having that 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds that lead Source combined with the systems of having transaction coordinators content photos everything being taken care of from a 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds marketing perspective flyers I mean it it really is an incredible spot where you can come in and your focus should be on Selling Houses yeah and then making 18:13 18 minutes, 13 seconds sure that your systems are set up to support our systems and and plug in and start selling a whole bunch of houses 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds yeah so really I mean that's what you focus on is like hey come here we'll take care of everything for you we'll you know make you succeed right you know 18:28 18 minutes, 28 seconds I mean and so you're G to you're going to succeed there and stuff so yeah and if you don't I mean I come from a background where you had to be a high 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds producer in order to be at Edge right a lot not a lot of people know this Edge has a minimum production standard every year of 40 transactions oh W okay so like if you're not selling at least that 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds yeah there's it's tough for you to be here sure um so when I was starting this part of one of those one of those things where I was like hey Michael I feel 18:54 18 minutes, 54 seconds pretty important I feel strongly about this um we have a minimum production Center for everybody on our person of 12 transactions a year okay my goal is to 19:03 19 minutes, 3 seconds hopefully ultimately bump that up a little bit sure but like to me that's a great spot where you're making enough to support your family you can go all in on 19:11 19 minutes, 11 seconds this um and it's very realistic with how we have stuff set up so to me it's a no-brainer to have that as a minimum 19:20 19 minutes, 20 seconds sure I I think agents can be selling more houses and I think that's that's a big Focus for us is transacting at a high 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds level level and and obviously with new agents I can see a huge appeal to you know hey go on with your group and stuff like that for for a more seasoned guy 19:37 19 minutes, 37 seconds that's you know already producing pretty good and stuff like that is there a place for that guy at your company or you know what what are your thoughts there yeah is and it's interesting I I 19:45 19 minutes, 45 seconds can answer that better now just because I spent the last 60 days recruiting and there's been a lot of new agents but there's also been a lot of established agents that I didn't think would be 19:53 19 minutes, 53 seconds wanting to have a conversation true um I met with an individual yesterday who's going to be joining the team he does anywhere from 18 to 24 transactions a 20:01 20 minutes, 1 second year and he has for the last three years okay so it's like okay why join a team yeah um the advice that I gave him is that there's two things that his 20:09 20 minutes, 9 seconds business needs at this point regardless of what team he interviews with these are the things that he should be asking them number one can the individual in 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds leadership help me sell more houses if you don't feel like the person that is tasked with being your Mentor the person that is going to be helping you lead and 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds the person that's going to be training you if you don't feel like they can help you increase whatever production you have currently not a good 20:32 20 minutes, 32 seconds fit second is are these systems something that I need to implement in my business anyway in order to sell more houses is the services that I'm paying 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds for via my split is that worth sorry does that cost the same as it would if I was trying to add my own 20:47 20 minutes, 47 seconds transaction coordinators and my own content person and my own photo person and my own marketing person yeah if the answer is I would rather have somebody 20:55 20 minutes, 55 seconds else do it for me and I'll just pay for the service yeah then I think that you should come over with the goal of selling at least 10 more houses than you 21:03 21 minutes, 3 seconds were the year before um to me that comes from two numbers number one I feel confident that I can 21:11 21 minutes, 11 seconds look at your business and sit down with you and say okay you generated 20 transactions like this here's how you go and get a couple more from each of those lead sources that you personally have 21:19 21 minutes, 19 seconds second I also have this cool thing called Zillow that I can get you 8 to 10 active buyers every single month you can convert at a certain percentage that should at least give you an extra 6 to8 21:28 21 minutes, 28 seconds transactions can I help you find the extra 2 to four to make that be a goal of 35 to 40 transactions we feel confident that we 21:36 21 minutes, 36 seconds can okay okay I feel confident that I can yeah good good no that's good good answer for that 21:44 21 minutes, 44 seconds um let's let's talk about um you know as far as any advice let's switch from from 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds Realtors and recruiting and different things like that let's switch to like you know kind of the end consumer here for a second so um so if you were a 22:00 22 minutes buyer you know entering the market and stuff like that good time to buy should you know should we wait what what what advice would you have to a firsttime um 22:08 22 minutes, 8 seconds you know buyer come into the market you know hearing that interest rates are going to fall maybe and stuff like that you know should I wait you know should 22:15 22 minutes, 15 seconds you know any thoughts there 22:22 22 minutes, 22 seconds um I think there's two points to make the first and this is what one of the things that I I'm training on like crazy right now is that people move for one of 22:31 22 minutes, 31 seconds two things okay current dissatisfaction they don't like where they're at or a future promise for something better okay today I would say what the majority of people if they are transacting in the 22:39 22 minutes, 39 seconds market today it's based mostly on their current dissatisfaction okay and so I think if somebody is in a position where they don't like where they are living 22:48 22 minutes, 48 seconds it's time like it's not a bad time to buy okay I think if you are in your parents basement you've been there a year longer 22:56 22 minutes, 56 seconds than you thought you would probably doesn't matter what are cuz those are always going to change at that point do you feel like the prices on your house is going to be more expensive or less 12 23:04 23 minutes, 4 seconds months from now if you feel like it's going to be more it's probably a good time to jump into the market okay okay 23:11 23 minutes, 11 seconds um what about for somebody that um you know was looking to sell and stuff like that that they have that two three% rate you know but like hey you know um you 23:20 23 minutes, 20 seconds know do I want to jump into the market again do I want to you know do I want to sell and stuff like that so once again current dissatisfaction is a big portion 23:28 23 minutes, 28 seconds of that okay if you hate where you live then I think it's a good time to buy a house I think prices are about as low as they're probably going to go if I had to 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds guess okay um but I also think it's an important time right I think the past tradition has been you move into something you 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds sell that you use the equity and you go into something a little bit nicer yeah it might also be time to challenge that way of thinking if your payment is in a 23:51 23 minutes, 51 seconds spot where renting it out and becoming a landlord for a little while makes sense there's a couple of options to pull money out against your house if you want 23:58 23 minutes, 58 seconds want to if you need to save up you can and then it's a better time to buy but like yes I if you need to move then sell 24:07 24 minutes, 7 seconds your house sure if you think it would be cool to have a rental property you're probably in a good position to become a landlord okay 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds okay um good advice yeah no that's good advice um as far as you know um one of 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds the things obviously that a realtor does is you know help negotiate things right you know I mean that's um that's probably something you're very good at 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds with you know working an edge and stuff like that but why um you know what kind of things are you able to negotiate now or what why why should a guy use a 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds realtor as far as just from the negotiation standpoint and you know or is that even important you know like you know if there's it seems right now the 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds markets you know people aren't it's not too hard to find a home and stuff like that so why would they want to realtor 24:51 24 minutes, 51 seconds from a negotiation standpoint I guess Viewpoint you're asking some loaded questions uh 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds um because if I'm being really honest there's probably if you look at the number that 25:06 25 minutes, 6 seconds 25% of Agents did one transaction or less last year that's alarming okay and it makes some of these lawsuits that we're seeing probably make a little bit 25:15 25 minutes, 15 seconds more sense sure part of why I have a minimum of 12 transactions to be on my team is because I think that's probably close to where 25:22 25 minutes, 22 seconds you have to be transacting in order to be able to justify why a you're getting paid the same percentage as that other person that let's use Michael Perry as 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds an example sure right on a transaction you are in theory getting paid the same percentage assuming you're selling the same listing that Michael Perry is yeah 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds are you creating the same amount of value for your buyer are you a part of that value is in negotiations I think right now it's it's 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds really difficult to do that if you don't have a pulse on the market right because I think the concessions that you see in Saratoga Springs are different than what 25:53 25 minutes, 53 seconds you see in American Fork right now okay I am on uh Ty right now with my office to get more people into new construction 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second because I I'm a believer that right now it is cheaper to buy new construction than it is existing just simply based on the fact that if you go compare an old Edge town home that sold in 2019 that I 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds sold to somebody that's being resold it's going to be sold for the exact same price list price as a brand new town home the only difference is that edge is 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds offering a 3% concession that allows you to cut your monthly payment what two three $400 a month yeah for the same property it is cheaper monthly right now 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds to go and buy a new construction if your agent isn't advising you to look at new construction that's where you're going to have probably more negotiating power 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds than anywhere right now just simply based on supply and demand that a builder has 10 homes in a neighborhood they have to sell not just one home okay 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds and so it's just a a numbers thing right like that if you don't know that but it goes back to that that if you don't you have to be working with an agent that 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds transacts enough to know what can be negotiated right now and what can't because it's very very different from 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds City to city and zip code to ZIP code right now okay which I like that answer I mean that's that you brought up the lawsuit and different things like that I 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds mean that's so again going back to the importance of who you hire matters I guess right you know the one that's you know not to knock anybody I guess you 27:13 27 minutes, 13 seconds know but the one that's doing one transaction a year just doesn't have the experience of what you're saying yeah and so if you're going to be charging if you're going to be charging the same amount as somebody else you better be 27:21 27 minutes, 21 seconds able to stand on it right and it's been interesting because like I said my wife got our license in May and so we've been having the conversation and and she has 27:30 27 minutes, 30 seconds put a ton of time and energy into her business because I think she recognizes that right that she understands that she's going up against somebody like me on the other side that's saying hey let 27:38 27 minutes, 38 seconds me interview for the job I'm going to charge the same amount as that person I don't think that you always have to Discount your rate but I think you need to be able to stand on it and I think 27:47 27 minutes, 47 seconds the biggest difference that we're going to see because of the lawsuits is that a buyer's agent can no longer say the reason that you should use me my value add to you is that the service is free 27:56 27 minutes, 56 seconds the service is in fact not free it is Absol absolutely a service that the buyer is paying for just through the seller so you should absolutely if 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds you're a buyer's agent today if you are looking for a buyer's agent today you should absolutely be interviewing them the exact same way that somebody would 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds for a listing because don't let anybody fool you the law suits are going to clear this up for everybody that 3% is absolutely being charged to the buyer so 28:20 28 minutes, 20 seconds you're so I'll dive a little bit more into this but what do you what do you foresee realtors that whole thing you 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds know let's play this out I mean obviously lawsuits take a long time to actually hit into the market right you know so forecast you know two three four 28:36 28 minutes, 36 seconds or five years later but what do you foresee the the role of a realtor in this and and you know are you going to see some realtors get out you know 28:44 28 minutes, 44 seconds because it's harder to actually I hope so I hope so can I say that I not sound like a dude like I don't I mean yeah and 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds I mean that with all the love in my heart but like this is going to look very different in Utah 5 years from now like 29:01 29 minutes, 1 second the agent that is going to be transacting at a high level 5 years from now is going to look very different and I think between that and the pressure that we're getting from people it will 29:09 29 minutes, 9 seconds naturally push more people out because it's going to be even harder than it is today to break into this business right what is going away like let's look at a 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds worst case scenario with the lawsuits to me the worst case scenario um is that the buyer commission gets moved over to 29:23 29 minutes, 23 seconds the buyer side to me like I can't see it going much past that you might see I think you'll see a compression on the 3% but I think ultimately what you're going 29:32 29 minutes, 32 seconds to see is that to me that's the worst case scenario so the conversation that we're prepping all of our agents for today is like I just said this to a 29:41 29 minutes, 41 seconds buyer is a service that you were paying for what do they get how good are you yeah and why are you charging that 29:49 29 minutes, 49 seconds number and I think in the past it's been very easy for Buyer Agents to hide it on the seller side true and it's I don't think that that is healthy for the 29:58 29 minutes, 58 seconds market because I don't think that that actually requires agents to create value for their client if their perceived value is it's free to you so you see a a 30:07 30 minutes, 7 seconds better realtor in the future they would have to be yeah just like if you look why doesn't everybody go and do listings because you have to be able to explain to somebody why you're charging them 30:15 30 minutes, 15 seconds 6% listing agents have been doing it for as long as time like I think it's okay for buyers agents to be able to start having that same conversation and if the 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds answer is a my service is free to you or B I open the door for you no one is gonna want to pay you 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds 3% so either get really good at transacting at a really high level at a reduced rate or figure out how to how to 30:40 30 minutes, 40 seconds explain to people what your value is okay I like that it uh I mean sooner or later well and so and I don't know 30:49 30 minutes, 49 seconds like that's the thing is like nothing nothing might change for 5 years this is going to get tied up in all sorts of appeals who knows when something is 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds actually going to happened but to me as I've thought through it I can't that that to me is the worst case scenario and that it just becomes a financing 31:04 31 minutes, 4 seconds question and to me it's honestly being financed the same way if you look at it like that I I don't think purchase prices will really adjust which I think 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds was part of the original goal and filing the lawsuit originally but I I do think um you'll see a compression just because 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds more agents once that gets moved over will have a harder time explaining that why somebody a buyer specifically should work for them which is why you're trying 31:27 31 minutes, 27 seconds to trade your agents now to hey let's just go go to this now because well I mean even if nothing changes even if it nothing changes right to me I I know 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds what a lot of our competition that are having the same interviews as us are saying right now they're they're relying on the fact that it's free and that's what they're leading with if we go the 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds other direction with this I I think we'll stand out true especially when we can clearly explain it to people I think you're right interesting 31:53 31 minutes, 53 seconds to see how things will play out but I think ultimately like you said we'll get a better realtor for this which is absolutely which is not I mean it would be nice if if that job was treated more 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds as the profession it is you know what I mean I mean I you know I mean you go anywhere you you appreciate a good salesman you appreciate a good you know whatever person that you know whatever 32:11 32 minutes, 11 seconds job that is you want them to be good at their job and I would hope that obviously this will increase the you know the the quality of the Realtors out 32:19 32 minutes, 19 seconds there well I think Utah's already trending in this direction um before the lawsuits took place like if you look what Utah is quickly turning into 32:28 32 minutes, 28 seconds um the hyperlocal agent is going to be the one to me that wins in 5 years and a hyperlocal agent is a better agent for 32:35 32 minutes, 35 seconds clients sure right like that is a massive Focus that we have at the Perry group is forcing that right now people to start to get as hyper local as 32:43 32 minutes, 43 seconds possible because to us that's where Utah's Market will be transacting in three to five years right if you look at other markets that trade similar to ours this is already happening you have 32:52 32 minutes, 52 seconds agents and they don't go outside of a handful of zip codes right like to me that's what the future is going to be I look at my time at Edge we talked 33:00 33 minutes through how many I sold all of those transactions took place from Eagle Mountain to Lehi and from Saratoga to Herman right a very small concentrated 33:08 33 minutes, 8 seconds area and I wasn't good for everybody but the people it was a good fit for we were great right and to me that's the type of agent that is going to succeed in the 33:16 33 minutes, 16 seconds future and that's the person who's going to be able to articulate I also think that that agent is going to have a very established personal brand right if you look at everyone knows who Ryan sirant 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds is Ryan sirant lives in a very very small Geographic Market how does he succeed he's a hyper he started out as a hyper local agent 33:33 33 minutes, 33 seconds and now he's getting a lot bigger but he is the person if you're looking for that specific product in that specific City that's the person you call you have to 33:41 33 minutes, 41 seconds become that going forward right if you look you didn't have to be that 10 or 15 years ago in Utah just because we didn't have the transactions and the dollar amounts 33:49 33 minutes, 49 seconds to justify it so you had people going from Nephi to Logan and from TOA to cus because that's how far you had to drive in order to sell 40 houses a year and 33:57 33 minutes, 57 seconds you that is that is going to disappear over the next 3 to 5 years in in some 34:04 34 minutes, 4 seconds specific counties sure sure any is talking about future anything anything else futuristic I mean I love your 34:12 34 minutes, 12 seconds insights on these things do any other forecasts or or things that you foresee I mean you've hit quite a few so if you don't that's so but um no I think from a 34:21 34 minutes, 21 seconds market perspective it'll be interesting because as the interest rate conversation is taking place slowly there there have been four developments that have been started in the state of 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds Utah that are going to completely change I think how real estate is viewed in the state of Utah you have Utah city you have the point at Bluffdale you have 34:38 34 minutes, 38 seconds Holiday Hills and you have um oh I forgot what was the fourth one I forgot so let's call it three you 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds have Utah city you have the point and you have Holiday Hills those three neighborhoods are not going to feel like anything that I think we have seen in 34:53 34 minutes, 53 seconds Utah those are going to start to get rolled out over the next couple of years years you see the prison being completely torn down if you've seen what 35:00 35 minutes Utah city is trying to do from a I don't even know engineering like we have never seen anything like it and it those 35:08 35 minutes, 8 seconds things are going to change the market completely I think so be on the lookout uh I don't know I don't it'll be interesting to see 35:16 35 minutes, 16 seconds what happens right because I think there's still massive traffic concerns there's still like some weird things that like we have not caught up to just 35:23 35 minutes, 23 seconds from a growth perspective in the state but I think it'll be very interesting cuz I think it will just change especially in the areas that are closely connected to those it is just going to 35:32 35 minutes, 32 seconds change how the market reacts to stuff pricing is going to adjust like it's going to be fascinating to see what 35:40 35 minutes, 40 seconds happens anything else that we haven't covered that you wanted to cover today anything else we didn't hit I don't know is there anything that I'm forgetting 35:49 35 minutes, 49 seconds you you've hit I I you know we need to have you on a lot sooner than we did last time because actually you're you're very insightful I will say you are very 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds good at your and I I mean that no I appreciate that I'm new here though so don't I I mean that from a like you know you can tell 36:04 36 minutes, 4 seconds you were basically born and raised in this industry I would say I don't know anything else yeah that's what I realized when I quit I was like son of I 36:11 36 minutes, 11 seconds don't have I don't I don't have a transferable skill set but luckily I'm I know what I'm doing here I think you do you do and I and I I tend to believe 36:19 36 minutes, 19 seconds your insights and and um they make a lot of sense to me and and so i' I've I've enjoyed this um you know so so I that's 36:28 36 minutes, 28 seconds why I say we'll have to have you on again you know soon just to get a little more update and stuff because I think I think you add value to everybody right they go to work with you or not I think 36:36 36 minutes, 36 seconds a lot of people would be wise to at least listen to some of the things that you got going on CU you you got some good insights I want real estate to step up in the state of Utah like I like I 36:44 36 minutes, 44 seconds talked about it earlier like some of my earliest memories like part of why I really wanted to do this um was cuz I remember being a child walking around an 36:53 36 minutes, 53 seconds office and seeing people like Eric Woodley seeing people like John Woodley seeing people like the Scoville brothers that run a rip holes like seeing some of 37:01 37 minutes, 1 second these individuals that are just Titans in the industry today I I I feel a sense of responsibility to start trying to bring up that next generation of people 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds that are going to be on the Forefront of some of these things because I some of my earliest memories were watching my dad do the same thing so like when I talk about fun like this is fun like 37:17 37 minutes, 17 seconds this is yeah I can tell this is this is something that I am excited about it's something that I wake up like being able to have conversations like this with 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds everybody I want real estate a agents across the board to get better like that's that is and I don't care if you come to work for me I I it won't change 37:33 37 minutes, 33 seconds how I talk to you or if I can help at all DM me text me if you're struggling it's supposed to be fun 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds though okay and that's a good way to end this is supposed to be fun I like it appreciate you guys of course hopefully 37:50 37 minutes, 50 seconds it wasn't too all over the place thank you everybody for listening and we'll see you next week I'm sorry everybody I'm sorry I thought that was 37:58 37 minutes, 58 seconds cut sorry I'm new with 38:05 38 minutes, 5 seconds [Music] 38:10 38 minutes, 10 seconds this